October 2, 2011

Christie Insiders: Original Plan was “Christie 2016″

And you thought you were going to get through Sunday without your obligatory Chris Christie post:

A hastily put together campaign would upend what two of Mr. Christie’s advisers said was his original plan: to consider running for president in 2016. But with President Obama looking more vulnerable, and with dissatisfaction among some voters and influential party leaders with the current Republican field, Mr. Christie is said by those close to him to feel that his best opportunity to run might be now.

This tidbit makes me think that a Christie run is imminent. In order for “Christie 2016″ to become a reality, President Obama would have to win re-election next year, despite a 40 percent approval rating, and despite leading Mitt Romney in dark blue states like Connecticut by only a few percentage points. Even if Christie somehow manages to win re-election in New Jersey without moving leftward on scores of issues, a daunting feat, he will pretty much be done as far as presidential politics is concerned should Mitt Romney beat Obama next year, with a youngish, conservative veep like Marco Rubio the heir apparent for 2020 and beyond. It’s now or never for Christie. I’m predicting that it’s a go.

by @ 7:29 pm. Filed under Chris Christie
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342 Responses to “Christie Insiders: Original Plan was “Christie 2016″”

  1. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    “it’s a go”

    That’s assuming Christie actually wants to run…

  2. Conservative Dude Says:

    I predict Christie is not going to be the Republican nominee in 2012.

  3. Jonathan Says:

    Sorry Dave but I just think that this Christie buzz is more people hoping that white smoke comes out of the chimney instead of there actually being white smoke.

    If there’s been anything to change Christie’s mind recently, it’s probably been Florida moving up our primary. If the race was going to start in Feb instead of January, then maybe, just maybe Christie could pull it off. But with Florida presumably still being 5th, the race is going to start a lot earlier than people planned. I think this just leaves Christie with too little time to put together the organization he’d need to win.

  4. MPC Says:

    I wish Christie could go in 2016, I almost feel like the country needs more pain before it’s willing to take tough medicine. Give it too soon and the chance for change may be lost.

    But he probably realizes that Romney would likely beat Obama in recessionary conditions simply due to incumbency. Romney would fail to improve anything and a populist challenge from the left would throttle him in 2016. Christie could primary Romney and even possibly beat him if bad enough, but this never tends to work for keeping the Presidency. So I don’t blame Christie for going now.

    But I’m afraid for what’s going to happen, Christie or no Christie.

  5. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    In other words, Christie is both a flip-flopper and an opportunist, one who got in only when it looked easy, and only at the request of others.

    Yeah, that’s sure a guy I want in the White House.

    I pray to God that Christie is smart enough to avoid this trap – the white-knight seekers who will never be satisfied (particularly by Christie), the media hungry to keep the news cycle going, etc.

    We’ve already wasted considerable good talent on 2012 that we should have kept dry for the future. How many people here want to put money on Tim Pawlenty or Michelle Bachmann ever winning the nomination now? Yet they were two potentially good candidates.

    If Christie runs, I have no choice but to do everything I can to obliterate his chances – which, considering things, is likely a permanent situation….that’s not a position I want to be in with a politician who I think could have a very strong future.

    There was a claim on this site a couple of days back that Christie himself had said he didn’t think he was ready to be President – if that’s true, its already the first nail in the coffin?

    “Governor Christie, what makes you consider yourself qualified for high office, after only a year and a half in the governorship, when the only noticeable change is a considerable opening in the Republican Primary field?”

  6. marK Says:

    Brent Hume:

    “With all due respect to my esteemed colleague Bill [Kristol], people who are chasing after Gov. Christie remind me of a pack of dogs chasing a car, and it’s not clear what they will do if they catch it,” Hume said.

  7. greg Says:

    just curious how long does mr. Christie have to decide like till early Nov at latest?

  8. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “But he probably realizes that Romney would likely beat Obama in recessionary conditions simply due to incumbency. Romney would fail to improve anything”

    ….and I ask again, this prediction is based on WHAT?

    Can you think of a candidate more experienced in, and competent with, economic matters than Romney?

  9. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “just curious how long does mr. Christie have to decide like till early Nov at latest?”

    Filing deadlines are as early as later this month…

  10. Thomas Alan Says:

    If he wants to wait, he could just jump on as Romney’s running mate. He’d be such a great attack dog that Cheney would look tame by comparison.

    I suspect he’d be one of the few people who would love the Vice Presidency.

  11. greg Says:

    so h’s got till at latest 31 oct?

  12. Katechon Says:

    Huge volume on Christie on Intrade in the last few days.

    Viva El SmackNews !!

  13. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “If he wants to wait, he could just jump on as Romney’s running mate.”

    A Mormon from Massachusetts, and a Catholic from New Jersey.

    Yeah, that ticket would play real well in Alabama and South Carolina.

    Give me DeMint, McDonnell, maybe Rubio (although I think its too early), even Thune.

    Don’t give me such an unbalanced ticket as to put Christie on there with Mitt.

  14. MPC Says:

    A look at what happens when there’s no more debt-based prosperity: debt deflation

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/07/23/deflation-bad-for-japan-brutal-for-us/

  15. Katechon Says:

    11 – Way sooner than that : think of all the paperwork needed to get his name on the Michigan ballot.

  16. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “so h’s got till at latest 31 oct?”

    Technically. But you have to file to be on the ballot, and that includes getting signatures, and filing fees, and a whole assortment of things.

    I’d say he’s got until the end of the week – if thats not too late.

  17. Bloodshy Says:

    7. The first filing deadline to get on a ballot is Oct 15th. Most other states’ deadlines are Oct 31. If you don’t enter by Oct 31 your name will not be on the ballot for the majority of states.

  18. MPC Says:

    Romney is not experienced in the current economic environment and would not manage it well.

    It requires a lot more decisions Christie is good at making, than decisions Romney is good at making.

    Romney is quite representative of the wisdom of the last thirty years. All that has been turned on its head now.

  19. Katechon Says:

    Rumors are Christie would announce Wednesday at the latest

  20. greg Says:

    does he like have to decide by like end of this upcoming week or are we talking by very latest 31 October?

  21. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “It requires a lot more decisions Christie is good at making, than decisions Romney is good at making.”

    such as….?

    If you want a candidate who is going to go out and do exactly one thing: berate union members into submission, then count me out.

  22. Thomas Alan Says:

    13:

    I’m not particularly worried about Alabama and S. Carolina.

  23. Bloodshy Says:

    16. Interesting. I was unaware of those complications.

  24. greg Says:

    HONEST QUESTION IF HE JUMPS IN is that likely the end of the 2012 announcement phase of this campaign or could like palin still get in ?

  25. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “does he like have to decide by like end of this upcoming week or are we talking by very latest 31 October?”

    He has to have all 50 filing fees and petitions for inclusion in on or around the 31st.

    Consider the time to roll out, set up an organization, get those signatures, etc…

    He’s got until the end of the week, and I think he’d still have a hard time.

  26. Jonathan Says:

    #16:

    If I remember right South Carolina’s deadline is something like Oct. 17th. Florida’s is Oct 31st. But again, the sheer logistics of getting through the paperwork and the mess to get on the ballot makes it very, very difficult for late starters, especially really late starters.

  27. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “I’m not particularly worried about Alabama and S. Carolina.”

    Telling your base to “go **** yourself” is never a good strategy.

    and I want to see the South included, as much for its political compass as its chunk of votes.

  28. Thomas Alan Says:

    The filing deadlines don’t matter as much as you think. There’s nothing that says that you need to compete in all 50 states to win the nomination. If Christie doesn’t get on the S. Carolina ticket, who cares if he wins the other 6 early states?

  29. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “If I remember right South Carolina’s deadline is something like Oct. 17th.”

    No way he can get in then. Announcement to filing fee and deadline in 12 days?

  30. Bloodshy Says:

    18. “Romney is not experienced in the current economic environment and would not manage it well.”

    LOL … because you, Mr. anonymous inet blogger, are an expert on the differences between the present economy, while Romney, who graduated top 1% from a Harvard MBA and has decades of experience working w/micro, macro and international economics is incapable of understanding the current situation…

    “It requires a lot more decisions Christie is good at making, than decisions Romney is good at making.”

    LOL what does that mean? Chewing out/mocking union leaders is the key to success in the current environment? Because that is virtually the ONLY good thing Christie’s done. …hardly a comprehensive domination of the economy…

  31. marK Says:

    I can’t help but think of all the other last-minute, ill-prepared candidates (two examples:Sarah Palin in 2008, Perry just last month) who hadn’t put in the massive amounts of time and energy required to study the national issues and plot out strategies to deal with them. To a man (and woman) they got crucified in interviews and debates.

    Running for President is not something you prepare to do in a day or two or even a few weeks. It takes months of effort, even years.

    I have the greatest respect for Governor Christie, but he is going to get creamed if he jumps in now.

    Don’t do it, Chris. It just ain’t worth it.

  32. Max Twain Says:

    Christie, like Perry, will shoot to the top of the field if/when he gets in. Unlike Perry, he won’t relinquish this spot.

  33. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “If Christie doesn’t get on the S. Carolina ticket, who cares if he wins the other 6 early states?”

    :rolls eyes:

    YEAH, because thats REALLY likely….

  34. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Because that is virtually the ONLY good thing Christie’s done. …hardly a comprehensive domination of the economy…”

    Fixed it for you.

  35. Thomas Alan Says:

    27:

    I’m not telling anyone to go **** themselves. I don’t see it hurting the prospects in any state.

  36. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    hmm…. was supposed to strike through “good”

    Berating people who want a say in how much they make is hardly good. Yes, a lot of people view union members as overpaid….but I don’t think all that many want to put their child’s teacher in the poorhouse…and a lot more have sympathy for ANYONE who is simply seeking a say in their compensation.

  37. greg Says:

    so basically he’s basically got a week from tonight to decide?

  38. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    32

    Really?

    Let me ask you a question, and I want a quick answer: What does Chris Christie think we should do about Afghanistan?

  39. Thomas Alan Says:

    33:

    I expect Christie would become a dominant frontrunner if he entered, so yeah, I think it’s likely.

  40. MPC Says:

    Romney’s inclination would be to cut back on overhead, which is what all businesses do in times of deleveraging.

    Romney is probably good at managing allocation of government resources to good programs. He’d be a good president overall in good times. Problem is, those resources are sparse right now. Growth in expenditures isn’t too likely.

    Romney would be forced to bring out the cost-cutter in him. If this were his business he’d do it well. But I don’t think he’ll do this well politically. I see no indication Romney will manage the minefield of reform to social security, cutbacks on the unlimited expenditure growth program of Medicare, need to drawback military commitments, etc. It’s likely he’ll just let them keep running up the public debt, because I don’t see in him anyone with any experience at getting support to cut back. He’s going to throw the costs onto future taxpayers, because they are precisely the ones who can complain the least.

    That’s what Christie is good at. Christie knows some people will hate him for doing what’s necessary. Christie knows he has to strongarm someone. He’s more capable of brute force, of conflict, and of framing battles in appropriate moral terms (Ron Paul is the king of this one). Christie is more capable than Romney at making this country do what it does not want to do, but what it knows deep down it has to do.

    And that’s the sort of leader we are going to need. Romney’s a nice guy, but he’s not suited for this time.

  41. Max Twain Says:

    And the ground games of the current frontrunners are not as impressive as in the past. Bush 2000 would never had lost to Bachmann/Cain. Romney and Perry are very vulnerable to a Christie tsunami.

    As for the issues, Christie is a very smart guy. He will sound just as knowledgeable about foreign affairs as Romney or Obama. On top of that, he is a world-class prosecutor and will shine in the debates.

  42. greg Says:

    which candidate does it hurt if Cristie announces?

  43. Bloodshy Says:

    27. “Telling your base to “go **** yourself” is never a good strategy.”

    Just because you don’t pull a candidate that relates completely w/some region of the country doesn’t mean you’re telling anyone to go **** themselves. No region of the country deserves to have a representative from their region on every ticket, regardless of where they’re from. The entitlement approach the South recently has carried into Republican politics is getting annoying.

    If the best candidate for Pres/VP/etc. is from the South, great. If not, great. Just pick the best guy–screw any region’s penchant for being butt hurt.

  44. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “because they are precisely the ones who can complain the least.”

    and you have evidence of Mitt avoiding challenge, difficulty, or hard decisions WHERE?

  45. Thomas Alan Says:

    and a lot more have sympathy for ANYONE who is simply seeking a say in their compensation.

    That’s actually a foreign concept to most people.

  46. NightOwl Says:

    Christie is not only a RINO (which the MSM isn’t really covering, they’re just treating him like the 2nd coming of Christ), he’s made it profoundly clear he’s not running.

    This is either the media trying to stir something up, or he’s going to be an opportunist who does the same thing as Perry. Up with the media love, down when people realize his actual positions.

  47. marK Says:

    Max.33:“Christie, like Perry, will shoot to the top of the field if/when he gets in. Unlike Perry, he won’t relinquish this spot.”

    You need to have a long talk to “Craig for whomever” about candidates who can’t possibly fail.

  48. Jonathan Says:

    #28:

    Christie could, theoretically, not file in South Carolina, but what if there is a problem and he misses Florida too? Besides, the headlines would be really bad for a fledgling campaign. “Christie fails to get on South Carolina ballot” would hurt the Christie effort and people would start thinking the campaign was incompetent. As we’re seeing with Perry, once an impression is created of a candidate, it’s hard to dispel.

  49. MPC Says:

    Christie isn’t “a nation building guy” in his words.

    Meaning Christie doesn’t endorse useless foreign adventures in trying to change the cultures of people that have been there for millennia.

  50. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    #43 – We aren’t just talking about putting two non-southerners on the ticket.

    We’re talking about drawing THE ENTIRE TICKET from the groups LEAST likely to appeal to southerners.

    Whether its fair or not, whether its right or not, putting two northeastern, non-evangelical, pragmatist conservatives on the ticket isn’t going to get a lot of people up and running to the polls.

    And yet base turnout could very well be key in many states, including North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, etc.

  51. James Says:

    Christie supports strong gun control. Mr. Christie strongly supported the assault weapons ban enacted during the Clinton administration. In a campaign flyer circulated during his 1995 campaign, he attacked his opponents’ support for repealing the ban. He also doesn’t support conceal carry law.

    There is no way I would ever vote for this liberal GOP in name only.

  52. Max Twain Says:

    38.

    You’ll find out soon!

    Quick question and answer from you: What does ‘double G’tmo’ mean??? Is that some kind of foreign policy lingo they use at Bain?

  53. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Meaning Christie doesn’t endorse useless foreign adventures in trying to change the cultures of people that have been there for millennia.”

    So, you would have preferred we leave Afghanistan to the Taliban, Iraq to Saddam, or Libya to Ghaddafi?

  54. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Spitting the moderate vote between Christie and Romney is a good thing indeed.

    Hope you’re right, Dave G :)

  55. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “What does ‘double G’tmo’ mean???”

    Well for one thing, it would mean that we should stop letting people out who just end up right back on the battlefield killing our soldiers.

    For another, it would mean no putting terrorists in the same place, with the same treatment, as our soldiers who happen to run afoul of their handbooks.

  56. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    *Splitting

  57. Max Twain Says:

    51

    Reagan supported the Brady Bill. And granted amnesty to 6 million illegals. And raised taxes.

    Yea, Christie will be just fine.

  58. Jonathan Says:

    Also no matter who the candidate or the campaign is, they will make mistakes. There’s no avoiding it. The problem for late starting candidates is that they have much less time to recover from their mistakes than those who started earlier. Remember how Herman Cain butchered a foreign policy question in June? He’s had time to recover from it and is getting a second look. But it still took Cain a while to recover. If Christie were to make a mistake in say November, it could take until January or later to bounce back, which is too late when the primaries start that month.

  59. MPC Says:

    Matthew,

    Maybe Romney will prove me wrong and try.

    But I sure don’t have any bets on him being able to do it. He doesn’t have the experience at managing tough decisions as a public leader, because being governor during an economic expansion (2002-2006), he faced a totally different environment than Christie (2009-2013).

    Giving public healthcare to a state that loves public healthcare ain’t hard.

  60. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    This site is in total confusion about how we want to deal with Christie’s entrance…

    Let me start clearing things up a bit, and try to get us on message:

    Q: Who is Chris Christie?
    A: A 1.5 year governor of New Jersey, who was elected in the Republican slaughterhouse of 2010. He specializes in candid conversation, tough confrontation, and telling the voters the truth in a straightforward way.

    Q: What other experience does he have?
    A: He was a U.S. attorney for a number of years, and that’s about it. No business experience. No military experience either.

    Q: Does Christie have any public positions or views about foreign policy?
    A: No.

    Q: Where does Christie stand on social issues?
    A: He’s pro-life, pro-civil unions, against taxpayer funded tuition for illegals, and supports an assault weapons ban.

    Q: Where does Christie stand on economics?
    A: Not entirely sure, but he seems to be a budget hawk.

  61. Bloodshy Says:

    40. “Christie is more capable than Romney at making this country do what it does not want to do, but what it knows deep down it has to do.”

    Really? Based on what? What has Christie actually ever accomplished in terms of cost cutting in his two long years of executive experience? Christie has accomplished a lot less than people think. He’s a youtube pop star because of things he’s said, not things he’s done. His belt size alone makes me question whether he’s physically capable of working the hours we’ll need our next President to work. We need someone that can plan, sell and execute. Mitt can. He’s done it over and over. Christie might be able to, but he hasn’t proven it yet.

  62. Thomas Alan Says:

    50:

    Gee, did the Democrats have this heartburn about putting two southerners on the ticket throughout the 90s?

    They’ll be fine, the south will fall in love with Christie.

  63. James Says:

    He would be better off changing to his real party the Democratic party and then running against BO for the democrats. Why do you think the Wall Street boys want him to run.

  64. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Giving public healthcare to a state that loves public healthcare ain’t hard”

    “public healthcare” is a bit of a stretch.

    and sometimes, the right thing IS easier to do.

    If you want to argue that we shouldn’t help poor people buy insurance, or that we shouldn’t require financially capable people to pay for their own protection, by all means, state your case.

    =======

    ” And granted amnesty to 6 million illegals.”

    Fool me once, shame on you – and Reagan was certainly fooled. Amnesty is probably his biggest mistake, and one of the greatest domestic policy disasters in the second half of the 20th century, right up there with the Great Society.

    BUT, Fool me twice, shame on me.

    No candidate supporting Amnesty today has an excuse.

  65. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Max Twain

    No one cares about Romney’s “double Guantanamo” comment anymore.

    Especially actual voters, who haven’t heard the remark, and never will.

    It’/s a new day. Romney is being himself, and it’s become abundantly clear and refreshing. Just WAIT until voters get down to crunch time and have to make a decision on who NOT to vote for. Romney wins by default.

  66. Thomas Alan Says:

    60:

    Christie was elected in 2009. He helped CREATE the slaughterhouse of 2010. He also laid out his foreign policy opinions during that Reagan library speech.

  67. Thomas Alan Says:

    It’d be nice to double Gitmo. Because of the folks obsessed with giving these people trials, we’ve given up capturing anyone and are just killing. It’s probably hurting our intel pretty bad.

  68. Bloodshy Says:

    50. I get what you’re saying. I do. But I think the risk of losing base support by having a Romney/Christie (or whomever) ticket would be far smaller than people think, especially in the states that matter (NC, VA, FL). And I think that could be an amazing ticket–Romney making the tough decisions and leading with action with Christie destroying people verbally in a humorous way.

  69. Bloodshy Says:

    57. Reagan was invested in the process for over 20 years before he won the presidency. And those things you mentioned were all on Reagan’s list of great regrets after his presidency. Just because Christie has some similar tarnishes on his record after just 1.5 years does not mean he’s on the same platform that Reagan was on in 1979.

  70. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Christie was elected in 2009. He helped CREATE the slaughterhouse of 2010.”

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy, and rightly so. How many people in other states voted for the Republican House candidate because New Jersey elected a Republican governor?

    Probably not many – if any at all.

    No, its the liberal policies that pretty much all republicans oppose, combined with the President’s huge failure to meet too-high expectations on the economy, that led to both outcomes.

  71. MPC Says:

    So, you would have preferred we leave Afghanistan to the Taliban, Iraq to Saddam, or Libya to Ghaddafi?

    To save a trillion dollars in debt from coming down on the heads of our future generations, yes I would. We cannot let enemies strike us with impunity. Pound the Taliban and annihilate their supporters for helping Bin Laden. But don’t try to turn it into a democracy, as they clearly do not want that. These countries work differently. Go in there and punish the ones who helped him, and leave.

    Gaddhafi was different as the revolt was native and they asked for Western help. We did not initiate it, and we will not run that country. Of course, it’s not going to cost all that much relatively, either.

    Don’t spend trillions helping to bankrupt the nation on stupid foreign adventures.

  72. Max Twain Says:

    As for the late entry, remember our current candidates are posting some of the worst fundraising in recent memory for the GOP. A large contingent of donors, bundlers, activists, etc. remain on the sidelines. If Christie enters, he will win over much of this machine, not to mention the huge assist he will get in free media from his allies at Fox, namely Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes.

    The support will be there, he has more time than people realize given the weakness of the field. When you’re getting beat by Herman Cain, your organization is not to be feared.

  73. Thomas Alan Says:

    70:

    Christie was a poster boy for the anti-spending climate that led up to the 2010 elections. I doubt anyone went out to the polls for him, but he influenced the political mood of the country as much as any individual in 2010.

  74. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    The American idea is based on two things:

    1) All people are created equal
    2) All people are entitled to certain rights.

    Now if you reject that those are universal qualities – for example, that Arabs, or Afghans, aren’t entitled to a say in their government, then you’ve basically thrown everything this country is built on right out the window.

    If Democracy is not the inherently superior idea, then why should we think its superior here?

  75. Bloodshy Says:

    66. “He also laid out his foreign policy opinions during that Reagan library speech.”

    Yes he did. And I liked almost everything he said with a few exceptions. Big exception: His reference to the city on the hill suggested open boarders in a big way. Maybe I was wrong, but that’s how it felt to me when I was listening to it.

  76. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “If Christie enters, he will win over much of this machine”

    You mean like Perry did? Or Palin would?

    We’ve passed the mixing ingredients stage of the game, its time to let things come to a boil, stir, let sit, and serve.

  77. Max Twain Says:

    And it won’t be two north eastern guys splitting the votes while Perry cleans up. Cain’s rise and Perry’s growing problems, and his most recent n-word debacle, will mean Cain will be coming after Perry from the right while Christie drowns the rest of them out on the stump. Romney will be forced to go negative on Christie, which will likely lead to a few debate moments that Mitt Romney won’t enjoy.

  78. Max Twain Says:

    76

    The Bush machine was opposed to Perry. And they hate Palin.

  79. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    This is something I’ve never experienced before…

    There are so many incoherent things being said, I cannot decide which illogical, baseless statement to address first.

  80. MPC Says:

    Really? Based on what? What has Christie actually ever accomplished in terms of cost cutting in his two long years of executive experience? Christie has accomplished a lot less than people think. He’s a youtube pop star because of things he’s said, not things he’s done. His belt size alone makes me question whether he’s physically capable of working the hours we’ll need our next President to work. We need someone that can plan, sell and execute. Mitt can. He’s done it over and over. Christie might be able to, but he hasn’t proven it yet.

    Christie’s willingness to show down the major expenditure-drivers in his state.

    You guys are trying to defend the guy who was a one-term governor, and that’s the extent of his experience. And attacking everyone else as inadequate just brings us back to the original problem – Romney doesn’t have much to stand on. Other guys aren’t perfect. I don’t act that they are. You guys wholeheartedly believe Romney is.

    Running the Olympics in a state filled with people willing to volunteer for free ain’t running the US of A.

  81. rightgal Says:

    Mass. YOu would not think there were so many illogical and baseless folks walking amoung us, now would you?

  82. Thomas Alan Says:

    77:

    I would hope that n-word stuff doesn’t have any effect on anything. That story should have seen print in a respectable newspaper.

    A painted over scribbling on a rock written by somebody else. Sheesh.

  83. Bloodshy Says:

    71. “We cannot let enemies strike us with impunity. Pound the Taliban and annihilate their supporters for helping Bin Laden. But don’t try to turn it into a democracy, as they clearly do not want that. These countries work differently. Go in there and punish the ones who helped him, and leave.”

    Spoken like someone that has absolutely no understanding of the fight being waged in Afghanistan. I don’t blame you for not knowing. It takes time and data to understand the environment and the objectives (or possible future objectives–including just leaving). However, don’t make a complete fool of yourself and suggest we take impossible actions. We want to kill the Taliban. It turns out they’re kind of hard to kill, especially w/Obama’s rules of engagement. If it were possible to do what you’re suggesting, we’d have left Afghanistan years ago. This situation is complex and no current option is risk free for Americans.

  84. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Running the Olympics in a state filled with people willing to volunteer for free ain’t running the US of A.”

    Pulling the olympics out of an economic and organization pit is quite an achievement…

    And Romney also has three decades, at least, of significant, high-level, private sector experience.

    Christie’s experience outside of government is….what?

  85. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    80

    How about the fact that Mitt Romney helped build, create, and restore dozens of businesses that now employ over 500,000 Americans?

    Is that a qualification for being a leader, and understanding the economy?

    (hint: this one should be a home run ball for anyone with a brain…)

  86. rightgal Says:

    Matt, he did commission a copter to take him to his kids little league game, once. Is that what they are talking about when they say Christy does it better than Romney?

  87. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Okay, here it is, folks:

    If Christie gets in, he’s going to get a serious look by the pundits and donors, and apart from that, voters are going to look at him pretty skeptically.

    After being hooked by Donald Trump and Rick Perry, the voters are naturally going to be skeptical of another flavor of the month.

    Christie is NOT going to run away with the nomination. Just watch. He’s going to have to work for it, hard.

    And how can we expect a man who never wanted to run, to have the drive to work as hard as he is undoubtedly going to HAVE TO?

    hmmmm…

  88. Max Twain Says:

    And let’s get things straight on conservative positions.

    Romney has problems with orthodoxy. Christie has problems with orthodoxy. Perry has problems with orthodoxy.

    No one can claim perfection. Perry has flopped defending himself. Romney’s done a mediocre job defending RomneyCare. Christie will out-shine both of them, both in defense of his positions and in his message for the country.

    The rock star will beat the robot. IF he gets in……

  89. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    All of this probably isn’t even going to matter. Christie is probably not running.

    I give him 30% odds of running.

  90. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    88

    Romney has done a mediocre job of defending Romneycare?

    Interesting… because he seems to be leading in the polls, and wrapping up this nomination.

    I guess the party only wants mediocrity? (sarcasm)

  91. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    For all I’ve said about the Perryites, it might end up being the Christie diehards we have to send to time out once the nomination wraps up.

  92. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    I’ll concede this: Christie has abnormally effective political skills.

    But where did that bring Huckabee in 2008?

  93. Mike Says:

    I’m actually starting to believe some of this Christie will run BS now….good argument here too…

    It will be so fun to watch half of Rombot nation abandon him for Christie and argue as though they never really liked him anyway! lol….

  94. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “I guess the party only wants mediocrity? (sarcasm)”

    Well, considering that so many – including Max – want us to nominate a guy with a year and a half in office (LESS than Sarah Palin), you might be able to take the sarcasm off.

  95. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    91

    No. At least Christie isn’t a total loser and a corrupt jerk.

    He’s pretty moderate and inexperienced… but at least he’s not a pathetic excuse for a human being.

  96. Max Twain Says:

    85

    Fact is Romney fired a lot of people along the way to restoration. His success record was a mixed bag.

    I don’t know how many blue collar voters are connect more the the multi-millionaire CEO who looks like the guy who fired you, than Christie, who looks like the guy on the assembly line next to you. It’s going to be a tough sell.

    If I’m Mitt Romney, I’m offering Christie the VP spot ASAP.

  97. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    94

    Good point. But like I said, the only people going nuts over Christie are pundits and donors.

    In other words, Christie is Mitch Daniels redux (with the same decision on running).

  98. rightgal Says:

    I seriously doubt Romney will lose anyone to Christy. Perry will. And Christy will have Fox on his side for a few weeks as the new kid on the block.

  99. Bloodshy Says:

    80. “You guys are trying to defend the guy who was a one-term governor, and that’s the extent of his experience.”

    There’s your problem. I’m not backing Romney for what he did as Governor, though I think he was impressive in that role. Romney, unlike Christie, has 20 years of very impressive referenceable achievements. He graduated #1 in undergrad @ BYU, top 5% & 1% from HLS & HBS respectively. He then was a very effective consultant at Bain, started Bain Capital, created and oversaw the implementation of Staple’s first business plan, saved Domino’s from bankruptcy in the early 80s, took over Bain Consulting and saved it from bankruptcy, turned a massive deficit into a huge surplus in the 2002 Olympics… and after all of that, served 1 term as governor.

    Mitt is a turnaround artist. That is what he’s done. He’s probably better at it than anyone alive. That’s why I’m supporting him. That’s what America needs.

    Does that mean Christie is not a good candidate? Of course not. If not for Mitt, I’d be a big fan. He has enough promise for me to like him better than I like Perry, who I see as the only other viable candidate right now. His speaking ability is elite & he carries most of the principles I want in a candidate. However, 1.5 years as a gov (with few real accomplishments), + a bunch of years as a prosecutor is not nearly the proven record that Mitt carries.

  100. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Fact is Romney fired a lot of people along the way to restoration. His success record was a mixed bag.”

    Well thats funny, because that seems to be what many of the people ready to bet their house on Christie are arguing we need….

  101. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    96

    It’s not all about connecting, Max. It’s about the resume too.

    If you apply for a job as head engineer at my company, and you have an associates’ in finance, you’re not getting an interview.

  102. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    …and I’ll ad my point to the mix:

    Without his business success, without turning around the olympics, without the non-political stuff Mitt has done…

    No, I probably wouldn’t be a die hard for a one-term governor.

  103. Max Twain Says:

    90

    Romney has been stuck at the same ceiling for months, despite universal name recognition and big financial resources. If you notice, as Perry has fallen, his support hasn’t gone to Mitt. The anti-Romney vote is real, and if given a Mitt or Chris choice, game over Willard.

    92

    Pretty far considering he was running on fumes. Imagine if Huck had the money waiting for Christie….

  104. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    ” game over Willard.”

    Do you have any clue how long, and how frequently, we’ve heard that?

    Guess how many times its been accurate?

  105. Max Twain Says:

    Chris Christie:

    2 years Governor 7 years US Attorney

    Mitt Romney:

    4 years Governor

    Christie tops Mitt on government experience. But you’re right, Christie didn’t have a career in breaking up companies and selling them to international conglomerates. Darn it! Guess he will lose that blue collar voters now. (sarcasm)

  106. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    103

    You reserve absolutely no right to call him Willard, and it further discredits you in the Race42012 community. You have been a Romney supporter all year, but when Christie might get in, all of a sudden it’s standard procedure to call Romney, a man of dignity and honor, “Willard” to disparage him?

    Shameful.

  107. Max Twain Says:

    104

    Only needs to be accurate the last time. If Christie gets in, it’s done. If he doesn’t, Mitt’s likely the next President.

  108. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    105

    You aren’t a Conservative if you hold being a strong administrator against someone. Are you a Democrat?

  109. rightgal Says:

    104. they said it time and time again…. and it’s always been proven wrong.
    Game over? the game has just got underway, and Romney is holding all the aces.

  110. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    105

    So being an attorney for 7 years equals 2 years as a governor?

    Oh please. Don’t even get me started about lawyers.

  111. Max Twain Says:

    106

    I think I’ve heard one too many fat jokes around here from other candidates supporters to be lectured about dignity.

    Willard and James should just use their first names, it’s silly.

  112. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    Max, no.

    Its a year and a half as governor.

    and you tell me how relevant US attorney is to the Presidency. General? Sure. CEO? Sure. Secretary of State? Sure. big-shot lawyer? Not so much.

    =======

    And yeah, Mitt laid people off – thats what you have to do to get a business turned around. Are you suggesting he should have done otherwise?

    Its funny – and disgustingly hypocritical – how people of a particular leaning want to kiss C.C. because he berated union members for wanting higher wages, arguing thats the attitude we need in the Oval Office, while wanting to burn Romney at the stake for laying people off from failing companies.

    How many of them do you think would still have been employed if the company had been allowed to go bankrupt?

  113. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    107

    “If Christie gets in, it’s done.”

    That’s what you said about the infamous loser Rick Perry.

    Nice predictive skills.

    By the way, do you ever plan on getting into politics? Because… well… I have some advice for you… stay far away from it. You’re pretty bad at it.

  114. Bloodshy Says:

    “No one can claim perfection. Perry has flopped defending himself. Romney’s done a mediocre job defending RomneyCare. Christie will out-shine both of them, both in defense of his positions and in his message for the country.”

    This is true. Christie is very skilled politically. He will cover his uncomfortable history better than either Romney or Perry can. He will be a legitimate opponent and would have a shot at the nomination. However, he lacks Romney’s ground game. And even if he’s more able politically, his sins will be new and more focused on than Romney’s. I think even if he enters Romney continues to be the most likely candidate to take the nomination. But Christie will be legit if he joins.

  115. Max Twain Says:

    110

    Please explain, in great detail, what a governor learns in year 3 and 4 that he doesn’t learn in year 1 and 2, and how those lessons directly impact one’s ability to be president.

  116. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    111

    I’ve never made a single fat joke on this site. In fact, I’ve never made a single fat joke in my life.

    Are you going to apologize for your insensitivity, or double down?

    You hero Rick Perry doubled down on a lot of indefensible things. Look what that did to him.

  117. Max Twain Says:

    113

    Says the guy who’s candidate lost to a broke John McCain after wasting $30 million of his own money.

  118. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    115

    He achieves things and proves staying power in 4 years. In 1.5, all he does is pass a single budget and help a state cope with a hurricane.

    Please explain, in great detail, what being a lawyer does to help a candidate make tough decisions on national security and management.

  119. rightgal Says:

    Here’s my take. Christy will split the votes with Perry, giving Mitt a clear lead. Christy will not get re elected to his NJ gig, because now the people of that state can’t trust his word anymore. So, he goes home after an embarrassing defeat at the polls, licks his wounds and buffs up the resume so he can job hunt after he loses his gov gig when up for election.

  120. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    117

    I never wasted $30 million of my own money losing to John McCain.

    I am an electrical engineer in Massachusetts with an eye for current events, my friend.

  121. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Please explain, in great detail, what a governor learns in year 3 and 4 that he doesn’t learn in year 1 and 2, and how those lessons directly impact one’s ability to be president.”

    I can run a mile. Does that mean I should go join the Boston Marathon? Doing things reasonably well for a short period of time does not make you an expert at doing them.

    What do you gain from those extra two years? Diversity of experience, the consequences of your actions, new challenges, etc.

    Are you arguing that Sarah Palin is as qualified to be President as anyone?

  122. rightgal Says:

    118. They fail to realize that Mitt also is an attorny, although he has never practiced as one.

  123. MPC Says:

    The Romney delusions are just deafening in here.

    If you gave me a state full of well organized free labor just waiting to be asked for, I’d save the Olympics too. I don’t see anyone touting my name for President.

    I don’t hold Romney’s business sense against him. I’m saying having business sense doesn’t translate into political capability, unless you have the power to put it in action. Christie is more likely to get that. He’s the man of the times, at least moreso than Romney is. I don’t think Christie is perfect. I bet he’d take a similar approach to Romney on regulation, which I would not like. But Christie is more likely to successfully reform entitlements and military spending. Romney is more likely to either fail or not try. Christie does not shy away from politically charged issues that need to be handled. Romney is a good manager as I said. He’d have been decent a decade ago.

    But this isn’t America in 2002, this is 2012. Growth isn’t the thing here – there’s so much debt on public and private balance sheets, that that’s not a serious option. We had our good years. Now we have to pay for them. Christie I trust better to do that, then Romney. Because making his state pay for itself has been his whole life in New Jersey.

  124. Max Twain Says:

    116

    Willard and James are going to need thicker skin than yours to survive against Christopher.

    If I were you, I’d simply start praying that Christie gives one last emphatic “NO”.

  125. Bloodshy Says:

    105. “Christie tops Mitt on government experience. But you’re right, Christie didn’t have a career in breaking up companies and selling them to international conglomerates. Darn it! Guess he will lose that blue collar voters now. (sarcasm)”

    This type of stupidity changes no minds–just loses you respect (if you had any).

  126. Reginald from Texas Says:

    What’s Christie ever turned around? Nothing. Not even his own health

  127. rightgal Says:

    *attorney

  128. The Water is Fine Says:

    Christie is NOT going to run, and will be endorsing Romney post haste. You heard it here first.

  129. Thomas Alan Says:

    Willard and James should just use their first names, it’s silly.

    Why would they go by names that they haven’t used since early childhood?

  130. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    124

    Oh please. Your sarcastic games aren’t fooling anyone.

    All you are is Craig for Losers, with the single exception that you write your own comments rather than copy and paste them.

    By that, I mean, you are a bandwagoner in the truest sense of the word.

  131. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Says the guy who’s candidate lost to a broke John McCain after wasting $30 million of his own money.”

    He went from a nobody to the second-placer for the Republican nomination. Historically speaking, thats about the best thing he could have asked for.

    He had no real, natural base of support – save Michigan, so he wasn’t even able to benefit from something like Huckabee’s standing as an Evangelical minister.

    Wasted? Look where he is today.

  132. Reginald from Texas Says:

    Christie is just a puppet for the Bushes. Everyone will soon find out that they handpicked him to continue their legacy.

    He has as much experience as Obama when it comes to the economy

  133. Max Twain Says:

    125

    In a time of populist angst all over the country, and fueling the GOP elections, thinking that a populist superstar like Christie wouldn’t pick apart an absurdly wealthy CEO with a huge deficit of charisma like Romney loses you respect (if you had any).

    Blue collar voters in Iowa and NH had to teach Mitt a lesson in 2008, and if Christie gets in, they will again.

    Better hope it’s a ‘no’ from Chris, because that is Mitt’s best chance.

  134. Smack1968 Says:

    SMACK BREAKING NEWS!!!!

    SMACK BREAKING NEWS!!!!

    (musical playing in the background)

    Tomorrow.

    Tomorrow.

    I love you

    tomorrow.

    It’s only a day away.

    ————————————————–

    I think you all get the hint.
    ————————————————–
    The rollout starts WED.
    ————————————————–

    Do you remember the guy who did the TPAW videos…

    ..well….he has a new job…

    …..and it’s not at McDonalds.

    ————————————————–

    It’s time for all of you guys and gals to get to bed…..tomorrow is going to be a “BIG DAY”

    (Musical starts playing again in the background)

    Tomorrow.

    Tomorrow.

    I love you

    tomorrow.

    It’s only a day away.

  135. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    132

    That’s pretty accurate, except Christie DOES have 1.5 years governing that Obama didn’t, for what it’s worth.

    Palin is more qualified than Chris Christie.

  136. The Water is Fine Says:

    Max, I love the man, but he’s going to have a diffucult time walking back from the “I’m not ready, and I don’t want it” to complete reversal.

    Christie is riding this for all it’s worth, but he ain’t runnin.

  137. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    134

    TPaw’s ad guy left Rick Perry for Christie?

  138. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “If you gave me a state full of well organized free labor just waiting to be asked for, I’d save the Olympics too. ”

    Well, if its so damn easy, how did they screw up in the first place? And why did the need to bring Mitt in?

  139. Max Twain Says:

    131

    He is currently a very weak frontrunner, historically speaking, for the GOP nomination. To have so much of the GOP political, donor, and activist class openly courting Christie in a draft effort the likes of which we haven’t seen since 1952, says a lot about Romney.

  140. MPC Says:

    Oh it’s so fun when Romney people start accusing others of being unconservative or Democrats.

    Romney is so consistently unconservative he goes from trying to outliberal Ted Kennedy to shilling for abortion to healthcare schemes that subsidize more use of healthcare to endorsing the largest financial moral hazard in history.

  141. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    133

    I looked at some crosstabs in that recent SurveyUSA poll in FL. Poorer voters actually supported Romney by a respectable margin over Cain and Perry.

  142. The Water is Fine Says:

    Max, Everyone thought Perry would kill Romney, too. Granted, Christie has some brain cells.

  143. Reginald from Texas Says:

    Christie has no jobs or.economic platform. This race is all about the economy, and Christie has no record there

  144. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Christie wouldn’t pick apart an absurdly wealthy CEO ”

    If Christie plays the class warfare card, I’ll let Obama have four more years. I expect that nonsense from Socialist liberals.

    But I sure as hell ain’t electing a President from my own party that has the same approach.

  145. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    ” Christie has some brain cells.”

    Not if he suddenly jumps into this mess he doesn’t.

  146. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    139

    What it says is that Romney can’t be bought.

    It makes me like him EVEN MORE than I did before.

    I am naturally skeptical of anyone the Bushes rush to support.

  147. Thomas Alan Says:

    135:

    He’ll have more time as governor under his belt than Palin by the time election day comes around.

  148. MPC Says:

    Matthew,

    Corruption of course.

    I will say that for Romney, he’s not a thief.

  149. Max Twain Says:

    136

    Not really. A simple explanation of ‘not ready’ meaning ‘not ready to take my family through it’, combined with the overwhelming draft effort that he will be able to talk more about once he gets in will dispatch that stuff pretty quickly.

  150. Reginald from Texas Says:

    It will be easy to paint Christie as short on executive experience

  151. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    140

    Ron Paul will never be president. Give it up.

  152. MPC Says:

    But Romney people LOVED it when the conservative establishment went in for him in 2008, MassCon ;)

  153. Max Twain Says:

    146

    Excerpt for when the Bushes endorsed Mitt right? Were you complaining when H.W. Bush was talking Mitt up earlier this year?

  154. MPC Says:

    Ron Paul will never be President because he doesn’t try to outliberal Ted Kennedy, promote abortion, oversubsidize healthcare and moral hazards like Romney, is what you are saying?

    I’d rather have Ron Paul

  155. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Chris Christie:

    “I’m not ready”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KakXZiRvchs

  156. Max Twain Says:

    144

    So you don’t like class warfare, but you don’t mind Romney’s shameless pandering on Social Security? Romney is basically running the Dems’ “scare the crap out of old people” strategy.

  157. Bloodshy Says:

    123. “He’s the man of the times…”

    This is your primary reason for supporting Christie. I just can’t support a guy based on these types of feelings that aren’t supported by achievement.

  158. Max Twain Says:

    Smack

    Got any more tidbits for tonight? You’re killing us with the teases!

  159. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    152, 153

    I speak for myself. I was not even on this site in 2008. I am skeptical of anyone who can be bought, and it’s NOT Romney.

    Romney cannot be bought. What good does it do him?

  160. Smack1968 Says:

    There was a vid guy….and there was an ad guy for TPAW.

    Romney has different guys doing two different tasks as well.

    Massachusetts Conervative, you know I’m not a Christie guy..although he might win me over in time, But you if you could see my inbox you would have that 30% Christie is running…. to 95%.

    I’m actually sitting on info…..seriously.

    There are outlets that will be running some stuff tomorrow morning that will highlight the names that have been working in NJ this weekend.

    The rollout is happening…there is no doubt.

  161. Thomas Alan Says:

    It will be easy to paint Christie as short on executive experience

    Not really. If it comes down to Romney vs. Christie, it’ll be a guy who will have 4 years in the governor’s mansion vs. a guy with 3 years (by the time of inauguration).

    Perry might be able to make the case if he could open his mouth without inserting a foot, but Romney can’t.

  162. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    156

    No, it’s an electability strategy.

  163. Max Twain Says:

    155

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2bYoNxh-Zk

    Sorry Mitt, but you got no answer for this guy.

  164. The Water is Fine Says:

    Matthew, I really hope Christie is not a fool. I realize the constant pressure to get in, and the temptation to start believing the hype is very powerful, and almost impossible to resist.

    Christie knows in his heart that he’s not ready. I hope he is the principled man I think he is.

  165. MPC Says:

    This is your primary reason for supporting Christie. I just can’t support a guy based on these types of feelings that aren’t supported by achievement.

    LOL! Christie ain’t perfect, but you are just deluded. Christie isn’t any shorter than Romney on achievements.

    And Christie actually has a backbone. Romney likes to sell his from time to time.

  166. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “So you don’t like class warfare, but you don’t mind Romney’s shameless pandering on Social Security? Romney is basically running the Dems’ “scare the crap out of old people” strategy.”

    I happen to agree with Romney. Shredding apart a system which can be made solvent for the next 75 years with only moderate changes makes little sense.

    And if there’s anyone who has a true claim to an “entitlement”, its our retired senior citizens who spend decades of their life working to build this country up.

  167. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    163

    Not spending 23:00 watching that.

    Gotta go to bed. Cya all.

    Nice spirited R42012 debate. This is why I come here.

  168. Max Twain Says:

    161

    And Romney vs. Perry, so far, has proven that length in office won’t count as much as performance. Christie will dazzle.

  169. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Not really. If it comes down to Romney vs. Christie, it’ll be a guy who will have 4 years in the governor’s mansion vs. a guy with 3 years (by the time of inauguration).”

    You mean a guy with a full four years as governor – barely any of it spent campaigning for President – and 30 years of private sector leadership.

    vs.

    A guy who spent 1.5 years as governor, before jumping into the election, who’s other experience primarily relates to the legal profession.

  170. Kavon W. Nikrad Says:

    Smack,

    Didn’t the guy who made the Pawlenty videos go to work for Rick Perry? I think his first ad for Perry was this one:

    http://race42012.com/2011/09/21/new-rick-perry-ad-proven-leadership/

  171. Max Twain Says:

    167

    Just skip to around 9:50 and watch for about a minute. Romney simply doesn’t connect that way.

  172. Max Twain Says:

    169

    Oooooh, I wouldn’t say that. Mitt was RGA chairman while he was in office, and spent most of that time collecting chits for his Prez run.

  173. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Again, my scenario is that Christie splits the overall “hardcore moderates” and other so-called moderates in the northeast with Romney, ALL to the Comeback Kid Perry’s benefit. Yeah, I know Max, Metro, and most Rombots disagree with me — but that’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it :)

    MattMackowiak According to @maggiepolitico, Christie’s path would be strong in IA then win NH. If true, his entrance is MUCH worse for Romney than Perry.
    21 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    maggiepolitico Christie run decision between him and his wife at this point, multiple GOP operatives say http://politi.co/oTG7aL
    17 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

  174. The Water is Fine Says:

    163. Max, it’s the reverse. It’s Christie who will have to explain why he’s better than Mitt. That’s hard to do when you compare resumes. Christie has a powerful personality based on being completely honest, I readily admit that. But let’s see how he justifies himself over Romney overall.

  175. MPC Says:

    And if there’s anyone who has a true claim to an “entitlement”, its our retired senior citizens who spend decades of their life working to build this country up.

    Build it up? They did a lot of good, but they also left us with $14 trillion dollars in debt and even more private debt. I owe them Social Security and Medicare as the generation who raised me up. But they owe us paying off the debts they accumulated while they ran the place ;)

    Looks like those Boomers already spent their retirements.

  176. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Mass Con,

    Why do you personally insult everyone on here who does not bow down to Romney’s perfection as you see it?

    80% of Repubs are not really into Mitt. Sorry.

  177. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    Its remarkable how many people are intent on destroying this party, its chances, and its future talent by throwing another guy into the race at a time when we should be settling down to find our nominee, all to unseat a frontrunner who has proven himself extremely competent, clean, capable, experienced, and intelligent…who’s primary sin remains requiring the financially capable to purchase their own health protection.

  178. MPC Says:

    I don’t think there’s any debate on the fact that Christie hits the average conservative in a way Romney can only dream of having. That’s why everyone describes Christie as genuine, authentic, honest. That’s part of what makes him great.

    Romney crafts positions well but his heart isn’t there the same way Christie is.

  179. Smack1968 Says:

    Max,

    You have nothing to worry about.

    You will have your horse.

    Dave’s post hits some very good points.

    The SF CRON & the NYT have some good pieces today telling the story of how Christie wants to run now…..they are correct…but they are about 24 hours behind real time.

    There is no more “convincing” going on….now all the work is about “roadmap”.

    If Christie was not running, the word would have gotten out today, a Sunday.

    But Christie is running and they want 5 days of “News cycle” to control and not have it buried by weekend cycle.

    5 weeks ago, my inbox was full of chatter about Christie getting in after the September 11 anniversary.

    This Thursday I unloaded info on this site that stuff was happening this weekend in Nj…. 6 hours before anybody else reported this fact.

    I have given names of people in the last 3 days who have been told to go to NJ this weekend.

    This weekend was not about convincing Christie to run…its been about planning a course for victory.

    Now the press is finally catching up to what the people of RACE42012 have already been told.

    Stay alert!

    Stay close to RACE42012.

    I do not know what we will find out next…but you will get shortly after I do.

  180. Max Twain Says:

    177

    You’re right. It’s a shame after our party already voted him down once, that Gov. Romney feels the selfish need to run again. He had his chance, now he should settle down, step aside, and make way for President Christopher James Christie.

  181. MPC Says:

    If there was a way I could choose to redirect my payroll taxes to paying down the national debt, I would gladly do so.

    Romney’s healthcare plan didn’t do anything and smells fishy and interventionist to conservatives, is Romney’s problem.

    I don’t care much about the latter. First and foremost, it didn’t do anything. We all still have a problem with healthcare.

  182. Bloodshy Says:

    165. “LOL! Christie ain’t perfect, but you are just deluded. Christie isn’t any shorter than Romney on achievements.”

    OK. List them please. What are Christie’s achievements? Since you kept repeating “man of the time” in every post, I figured that’s why you liked him–also, since I can’t think of many Christie achievements I guessed you couldn’t either.

  183. Katechon Says:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204612504576607262757554394.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

    On whether Christie is running or not

  184. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “You’re right. It’s a shame after our party already voted him down once”

    As they did with:

    Reagan.
    Bush I.
    Bush II.
    Dole.
    McCain.

    oh yeah, I guess thats pretty much everyone since the modern primary process started.

    ========

    “President Christopher James Christie.”

    I’m not voting to put Christie in the white house. I’d hate to not be able to vote for President in the first year I’m eligible…..but the man is not qualified.

  185. Bloodshy Says:

    180. “You’re right. It’s a shame after our party already voted him down once, that Gov. Romney feels the selfish need to run again. He had his chance, now he should settle down, step aside, and make way for President Christopher James Christie.”

    Yea, because great presidents have never lost on their first attempt at the presidency… think Reagan, Jackson, Jefferson, etc…….

  186. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    Let me put it this way:

    I cannot STAND Rick Perry.

    But I could vote for him before I could vote for an 11th-hour Chris Christie.

  187. Smack1968 Says:

    Kavon,

    I’m not referring to Mr. Balano, he already has a job. But there a “Pawlenty Vid Guy” who is known in Minnesota (He worked on the TPAW for 2012 PRESIDENT team) who will be working shorty…he is no longer unemployed.

    The Travel Secretary for the TPAW team is in NJ right now.

  188. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    186. Matthew

    Stop the jealousy/hate, it’s getting out of hand.

  189. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    ROMNEY ROMNEY ROMNEY, OOPS PERRY!

    RCP Average 9/15 – 9/27 — 26.5 23.0 9.0 8.8 8.0 5.0 2.8 2.0 Perry +3.5
    FOX News 9/25 – 9/27 363 RV 19 23 17 11 6 3 3 4 Romney +4
    CNN/Opinion Research 9/23 – 9/25 447 A 28 21 7 10 7 4 3 1 Perry +7
    Rasmussen Reports 9/19 – 9/19 1000 LV 28 24 7 9 6 8 3 2 Perry +4
    USA Today/Gallup 9/15 – 9/18 439 RV 31 24 5 5 13 5 2 1 Perry +7
    McClatchy/Marist 9/13 – 9/14 317 RV 30 22 5 6 7 12 2 1 Perry +8
    CBS News/NY Times 9/10 – 9/15 747 RV 23 16 5 7 5 7 1 1 Perry +7
    Bloomberg 9/9 – 9/12 545 RV 26 22 4 4 8 9 2 1 Perry +4
    CNN/Opinion Research 9/9 – 9/11 446 A 30 18 5 5 12 4 2 2 Perry +12
    PPP (D) 9/8 – 9/11 500 LV 31 18 8 10 11 9 2 2 Perry +13
    ABC News/Wash Post 8/29 – 9/1 RV 29 23 3 4 8 6 2 1 Perry +6
    Politico/GWU/Battleground 8/28 – 9/1 LV 36 17 4 5 10 10 5 1 Perry +19
    FOX News 8/29 – 8/31 341 RV 26 18 4 3 7 4 3 1 Perry +8
    NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 8/27 – 8/31 RV 38 23 5 5 9 8 3 2 Perry +15
    CNN/Opinion Research 8/24 – 8/25 467 A 27 14 2 6 6 9 1 1 Perry +13
    Quinnipiac 8/16 – 8/27 1185 RV 24 18 5 3 9 10 1 1 Perry +6
    PPP (D) 8/18 – 8/21 663 LV 27 17 7 7 6 10 3 2 Perry +10
    Gallup 8/17 – 8/21 1040 A 25 14 4 3 11 7 3 1 Perry +11
    Rasmussen Reports 8/15 – 8/15 1000 LV 29 18 6 5 9 13 1 1 Perry +11
    FOX News 8/7 – 8/9 319 RV 13 21 5 6 6 7 2 2 Romney +8
    USA Today/Gallup 8/4 – 8/7 487 A 17 24 4 7 14 13 1 2 Romney +7
    CNN/Opinion Research 8/5 – 8/7 449 A 15 17 4 5 12 7 2 4 Romney +2
    McClatchy/Marist 8/2 – 8/4 301 RV 18 21 6 2 3 8 3 2 Romney +3
    Rasmussen Reports 7/28 – 7/28 1000 LV 18 22 9 6 10 16 — 2 Romney +4
    Pew Research 7/20 – 7/24 546 RV 12 21 8 3 9 11 1 2 Romney +

  190. Matthew E. Miller Says:

    I think MPC is on to something. As we saw in Massachusetts and in the Olympics, Mitt Romney is very good in a crisis, in this sense- he’s good at making people believe that he can fix major problems without major pain. And since he’s a terrific manager, and understands how to cut costs, streamline, etc, on relatively small-scale problems he can deliver. This isn’t a small-scale problem. And I’ve seen no evidence that Romney’s at all good at convincing people that they ought to be willing to accept major, temporary, pain. Romney’s a the guy with very big, very effective, Tylenol- in a cancer ward. Christie’s the fella who sits you down and convinces you to go into chemo. Romney’s great. I can’t think of anybody who could better manage the United States’ decline. The question is, do we have to settle for that? To tell you the truth, I’m undecided. With Ryan, Jeb, Daniels, and all the folks capable of preventing the collapse sitting on the sidelines, we might be better off with the one man who can make our nearly inevitable downfall less painful.

  191. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    188 is NOT me.

  192. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Kavon,

    176 was NOT me. Please check url.

  193. Bloodshy Says:

    186.

    I also can’t stand Perry. If he won the nomination it would take some soul searching to choose him over Obama. However, I don’t feel the same way about Christie. I don’t think Christie is nearly as good as Romney–so I’ll hope he doesn’t join & will push against him if he does. However, I can’t help but like him. I would painlessly support him in the general.

  194. hamaca Says:

    96.

    Fact is Romney fired a lot of people along the way to restoration.

    Uh, hello. Isn’t that one of the things we’re looking for the next POTUS to do big time at the Federal level?

  195. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    191 is NOT me.

  196. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Stop the jealousy/hate, it’s getting out of hand.”

    Everything I’ve said, I’m serious about.

    If you don’t seriously want to be President, I don’t want you to be President.

    If you have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Presidential race, and only when it looks like you might have an easier time than you would have before, then you don’t seriously want to be PResident bad enough to get my vote.

    The difficulty and comittment of this job – you better want it with every fiber of your being.

    Four or Eight years down the road, and an entrance in may or june rather than october, and Chris Christie might very well be towards the top of my list.

    But not right now.

  197. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    189 is not me.

    Why do the Rombots always play these name stealing games?

    And you wonder why the other camps can’t stand Romney.

  198. MPC Says:

    Matthew,

    Don’t take it personal, but I don’t trust Romney to lead. He’s probably a nice guy on a personal level. He’s clean. But I don’t want him in charge.

    You guys push him so hard and I feel it would be a disaster to have someone we can’t really trust up there.

    I’m not looking for an extreme candidate. Christie definitely isn’t one. He’s been accused of being a RINO – RINO doesn’t matter all that much to me and never has. I don’t expect Christie to save us all. I do expect that Christie would take meaningful steps to try to put this country back on track. He’s not perfect, but he looks like a big step in the right direction.

    I don’t feel that Ron Paul is extreme, either, in what he proposes at the core. He is different. But he’d be a great change, if maybe not an easy one. I have enough faith in America to handle it, because it’s for the best, and America is a future-oriented country. And of all the agendas, Ron Paul’s is without a doubt the best for the future, if not necessarily the easiest.

  199. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    196. I meant the hate towards your next president.

  200. Bloodshy Says:

    190.

    You’re losing me w/”inevitable downfall” suggestions. We’re not near that point yet. American can be turned around in a real way within a few years. After four years with Romney the USA will be in the 5-6% unemployment area again with a balanced budget. America’s debt-to-GDP ratio is ~1:1 I believe. In England it’s 4:1. Other socialist countries are worse. America has some serious house cleaning to do, but we’re not necessarily going off a cliff yet.

  201. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    197 is not me.

  202. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “we can’t really trust up there.”

    THE MAN KEPT EVERY PROMISE HE MADE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

    HE CAME CLEAN ABOUT CHANGES IN HIS ABORTION POSITION.

    WHAT, IN GODS NAME, LEADS YOU NOT TO TRUST HIM?!

  203. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Of course, Matthew Kilburn AKA ROMBOT is pretending to be me.

  204. Alvin Says:

    Smack,

    I have no reason to doubt you or your information, and if it is indeed true then I will have to admit that I was wrong about Gov. Christie. It is not just that the Governor had said he was not running, it is that he did it repeatedly, with and without prompting, and in an emphatic, almost even over-the-top manner. I like him, but I feel that his change of mind would be significant enough to creat the first problems of his potential campaign.

  205. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Kavon,

    Please check the addresses of Rombots stealing identities on here. Half of the time here, my handle is being copied.

  206. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    202.

    The pregnancy rate skyrocketed during Romney’s administration.

  207. Bloodshy Says:

    204. Agree completely.

  208. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Of course, Matthew Kilburn AKA ROMBOT is pretending to be me.”

    You know what? You can shut you fat mouth.

    I don’t appreciate false accusations…particularly when they’re made by an idiot without any evidence.

    You tell me – When have I ever been afraid to put my real name on my opinions?

  209. Reginald from Texas Says:

    This election is about jobs and the economy. Every poll shows 75-80% of respondents indicating that this is the case. Christie is a Lester and 1.5 year governor. He has no record on the economy. Voters won’t make the same mistake that they dis with Obama.

  210. Craig for Perry 2012! Says:

    This is my new handle.

  211. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012 Says:

    208.

    are you as fake as your master, Mitt?

  212. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Kavon, #210 and about 8 other posts on this thread are not mine.

  213. Reginald from Texas Says:

    Lawyer

  214. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    #211, not mine. Check IP’s.

  215. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    #210, or #212, or whatever the hell is your real ID –

    You’ll have to email Kavon, he obviously isn’t on this thread, and likely doesn’t make much effort at filtering through old convos.

  216. Reginald from Texas Says:

    Perry rose rapidly because of the fanatical evangelicals and the alleged jobs record. Christie has no such record or group of zealots to rely upon.

  217. David Alvord Says:

    I saw the Reagan speech and thought Christie looked a little weak. I liked what he was saying, but he seemed to have his eyes on the text, only glancing up occasionally. His delivery was far worse than Mitt’s or Perry’s.

    Did anyone else feel the same?

  218. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Did anyone else feel the same?”

    yes.

  219. MPC Says:

    Romney’s great. I can’t think of anybody who could better manage the United States’ decline. The question is, do we have to settle for that?

    YES! :)

    This is exactly what I am talking about

    Romney will manage this country well, I have absolutely no question in that. Romney will be good for me personally, as I intend to be ahead of the curve in an environment of deleveraging which I am already betting on facing from the getgo, and he will make sure that process goes steadily.

    But he’s not a change leader. And I’m still holding out hope, that we can get one. Ron Paul would be it. Chris Christie could be it. I think the main reason for me to go with Romney would be just to accept that history is nearly impossible to stop. It’s cycles are clear. Machiavelli spoke to as much in the life of republics and I find it impossible to countersay what he already noted. So if the country is going into a slow decline, let’s go with Romney and make sure it goes well would be the rationale. We could end up like Britain, or Germany, or Japan. All healthy, prosperous, respected nations.

    I can tolerate Romney, but my heart will never be with him. I want to see things turn around, and to cast at least my vote, towards not accepting the decline. Restrengthening the moral character of our country through drawing down our debts and long-festering problems so that we can breathe easier for at least another generation. There is a great value which comes in learning to live within our means, honestly, and in the accumulation of trust that a nation’s citizens have in its dealings. I suspect that America’s moral base has been eroded with its financial base. And that’s for me the reason not to support Romney – let’s deleverage ASAP (Ron Paul would do it the fastest), to limit the damage to that unseen reservoir of trust and responsibility that the past years have done us.

  220. Alvin Says:

    209,

    I think you are right, particularly about the voters not repeating the same mistake twice. That is why I have always felt that extensive experience is going to be difference in the GOP primary, and why the people who don’t have it don’t stand a chance more than likely. It is also why I don’t understand the Rubio for VP hype and I hope that we allow him to get that much needed experience before throwing him out there.

  221. K.G. Says:

    #217 Yes, he read the whole thing. Doesn’t have the telepromter thang down, I guess. I gave him a pass for being a rookie. But I sure don’t want another rookie, unprepared POTUS. Been there; done that.

  222. Liz Says:

    Go ahead, Christie. Jump in. It’s Romney this cycle. He is one, prepared, candidate. With the right skill set.

  223. hamaca Says:

    Some heavy duty beard scratching going on here tonight.

    People are becoming quite expert at explaining in detail why Romney is not a good candidate. But then they are surprisingly weak when it comes to propping up anyone else using the same criteria and judgement.

    Ron Paul supporters are great at debating issues from an academic perspective–they can seem quite persuasive. In the real world of politics, however, Paul’s ideas fail, and not because they aren’t academically sound. Even he admitted many of ideas could never be implemented. He has little if any executive experience. Were he to win the election, he’d become the pontificator-in-chief. Even less would actually get done/changed than in a Christie, Romney, or Palin administration.

  224. Matthew Kilburn Says:

    “Go ahead, Christie. Jump in. It’s Romney this cycle”

    Completely aside from my strong liking of, and preference for, Romney…

    ….I don’t want to see Christie jump in and burn up another good talent for future races.

  225. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    New poll that shoulda polled Christie, too ;)

    PollingReport.com

    pollreport MASSACHUSETTS: Obama 57% / Romney 33% / Unsure 10% (UMass Lowell/Boston Herald poll)
    24 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    pollreport MASSACHUSETTS: Obama 62% / Perry 25% / Unsure 13% (UMass Lowell/Boston Herald poll)
    25 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

  226. K.G. Says:

    I think most people don’t have a clue how fragile the economy is. It’s not a matter of cataclysmic change; it’s a matter of sustaining the new normal w/o a complete collapse. If Mitt is the best to “manage” the country and keep things on even keel and create a better job environment, vote for him.

    There is no evidence that Christie can even do that much.

    Obama’s made a mess of things because no one believes he know what the heck he’s doing. Can we just vote for for the smart, organized, experienced guy with a relentless work ethic?

  227. MPC Says:

    Analysis of my train of thought on Mitt Romney:

    1-Me thinking of my future: I could tolerate this guy, he definitely wouldn’t come after me much and would keep things steady

    2-Rombots: Perry sucks! Christie sucks! Ron Paul sucks!

    3-Me: These arguments just seem to remind me of how flawed Romney is. He isn’t all these guys tout him up to be. I don’t like him.

    4-Rombots: You irrationally hate Romney!

    5-Me: I don’t like him, but come to think of it, I don’t have much reason not to, he’s tolerable

    6-Rombots: He’s tolerable? He’s the greatest American to have ever lived! Pitiful fools like Chris Christie pale in comparison

    7-Me: Actually I like Christie for being a tough-talker. That’s an attribute I wish Romney had more of.

    -return to step 4-

    It seems that we are stuck in an infinite loop.

  228. jaxemer11 Says:

    Why Chris Christie, and not Bob McDonnell? I mean, if you are really looking for a solid conservative freshman governor, why not go for the term limited governor of Virginia (a real swing state, as opposed to New Jersey)? McDonnell is smart, articulate, and fits the mold of a presidential candidate. Christie doesn’t fit the mold and has many of the same flaws that Mitt does when it comes to SoCon issues, and doesn’t have nearly the same level of accomplishment in the public or private sector.

    Is it just the ability to yell at teachers that puts Christie over the top? I don’t get it. McDonnell seems like the no brainer when compared to Christie.

  229. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    226.

    That was 47th in job growth when governor of Massachusettes?

    Let’s look at the 46 governors that out performed him first — or at least the 20 or so Republican govs.

  230. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    227. Nailed it. Welcome to Race.

  231. Metro Says:

    Who wants to guess at Intrade numbers after the Christie announcement?

  232. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    228.

    McDonnell ruled it out again this morning when asked about Christie running.

  233. K.G. Says:

    #227 You: “I want to see things turn around, and to cast at least my vote, towards not accepting the decline. Restrengthening the moral character of our country through drawing down our debts and long-festering problems so that we can breathe easier for at least another generation. There is a great value which comes in learning to live within our means, honestly, and in the accumulation of trust that a nation’s citizens have in its dealings. I suspect that America’s moral base has been eroded with its financial base. And that’s for me the reason not to support Romney – let’s deleverage ASAP (Ron Paul would do it the fastest), to limit the damage to that unseen reservoir of trust and responsibility that the past years”

    Me: You realize you do sound like delusionsal Obama voters back in ’08, don’t you? What? Neither Paul nor Christie can cause the sea levels to recede?

    Do you really believe a tough-talking bully is going to get anywhere with Wall St. or Congress? That there would be no pushback. Go find Mitt’s MSNBC Morning Joe interview on the art of strong, effective leadership.

  234. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    231.

    Already did yesterday.

    Let’s do national numbers.

    Real Clear Politics Current Average 9/15 – 9/27:

    Perry 26.5
    Romney 23.0

    RCP by the end of this month..

    Perry 22.0
    Christie 21.0
    Romney 17.5

  235. Metro Says:

    I’m going to modify my prediction slightly:

    Christie 45
    Romney 25
    Perry 12

  236. TarheelRepublican Says:

    Alright Smack. No more fooling around.

    Are you saying without reserve that Christie is going to get in the race, or are you simply implying that some of your e-mail buddies are implying that Christie will get in the race?

  237. jaxemer11 Says:

    You have to have petitions signed by hundreds of people to get on the ballot. Some of the deadlines are coming up in a couple weeks, most of them by the end of the month. That is a HUGE nationwide task for him. I would be impressed if he could pull it off.

  238. jaxemer11 Says:

    232 – That’s not the point. I’m asking why everyone is pushing for Christie and not McDonnell? It makes no sense.

  239. jaxemer11 Says:

    236 – LOL … don’t fall for Smack’s stuff again.

  240. Katechon Says:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/64959.html

    Christie ain’t running : he’s already leaking “no ” rumors

    I’m out of the Christie markets

  241. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    And after Perry wins Iowa AND Christie (with Branstad’s endorsement) comes in second in IA…

    Perry 31
    Christie 26
    Romney 12

  242. Katechon Says:

    If those rumours persist I might even short him.

  243. K.G. Says:

    #228 Amen, Jax. The flamboyant schtick is fun at first, but gets pretty old over time. Look what happened to Palin.

    McDonnell ticks off a lot of boxes and appears very presidential.

    Isn’t everybody saying that what the economy needs is “stability” and “predictability?” Not especially sexy, but then we’ve already done that one.

  244. Metro Says:

    jaxemer11: McDonnell? Dude, you don’t get it. The demand for Christie is because of his personality and his position as a fighter against gov’t bureaucracy. He is a rockstar. McDonnell has none of that. How are you missing the entire dynamic of this election cycle?

  245. MPC Says:

    I think most people don’t have a clue how fragile the economy is. It’s not a matter of cataclysmic change; it’s a matter of sustaining the new normal w/o a complete collapse. If Mitt is the best to “manage” the country and keep things on even keel and create a better job environment, vote for him.

    I don’t want to accept the new normal. The new normal is 9% unemployment and a sustained decline which I believe will make this country worse off for generations. I believe we can do better.

    Romney is excellent if that’s what you want, avoiding sharp jolts and accepting that the consequences for a rising empire, is inevitably a declining one. I could accept that, but I believe it would be a tragedy for us to have to do so. I feel like I have enough clue what’s going on and have my life in order, to come out pretty well in an environment of decline. Most of America would not. They like their stuff and their freedom to enjoy their stuff. Declines are going to restrict both.

    My proposal is to wipe the slate of the past in one big jolt. Ron Paul’s agenda would definitely do that, hence my support. Yes, people like the Boomers will lose a lot. Entitlements would get hammered. Portfolios would be hammered. However, they also enjoyed it the most in the good years. That’s just karma, and there’s no fairer way to allot it. Certainly more fair than letting them keep the profits and the future generations accept the consequences. We are resilient people to sudden shocks and will do better than you expect. What will kill us, is a slow decay. Slow declines stink, as you guys will soon realize even with Romney. No one likes these and Americans in particular will not like them. I would rather have a quick jolted demicollapse that we can come out of immediately and in better shape from before the environment of decline, depressed expectations, and slow withering changes this country forever.

    We should prosper not on our ability to inflate the debt, but on our ability to build up the country. We should be punished not because we live in a time of decline and drawbacks, but because we fail to build up the country. That is not the world I want my fellows and my kids to have to live in, for the consequences of their spendthrift elders. The most moral choice, to protect responsibilities and consequences, is to draw down the debt immediately and let the beneficiaries pay up.

  246. Katechon Says:

    241- IF the actual trend does persist, Cain will stand a better chance than Perry to win Iowa.

  247. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    After Christie wins NH..

    Perry 32
    Christie 29
    Romney 6.5

    After Perry wins SC..

    Perry 41
    Christie 19
    Romney 5.5

  248. Metro Says:

    #240: That is an extremely weak article, and includes no real facts.

  249. Metro Says:

    Rick/Jeb, you’ll be with us by then.

  250. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    246.

    What is Cain at InTrade to win IA or the nomination? About 5% each?

    Ok, I peaked..

    6.3 = Cain in IA
    4.9 = Cain nationally

    You should definitely bet your house, car, and wife on Cain. You can’t possibly lose. ;)

  251. Katechon Says:

    248 – that’s precisely my point : Christie’s entourage is leaking “NO ”

    they feel Christie doesn’t REALLY want to jump in.

    WHEN an entourage starts leaking nos, it is preparing grounds for a no.

  252. jaxemer11 Says:

    244 – You obviously don’t know anything about McDonnell. Rockstars don’t make good Presidents.

  253. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Intrade also at this moment..

    30.4 = Perry in IA
    20.5 = Perry nationally

    I’m all in on those two 8)

  254. Katechon Says:

    253 – lol

    That genuinely made me laugh out loud!

    Perry won’t be the nominee!

  255. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    *peeked

  256. Dave Gaultier Says:

    Perry adviser Dave Carney says Christie could be the “real deal” if he gets in: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/64928.html

  257. Metro Says:

    Katechon, so you currently think the nomination is Romney’s?

  258. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    254.

    Those are the current numbers — 4 to 5 times more than your sure thing, Cain.

  259. Tim Says:

    Habermann is guessing no, she has not been told no. Smack’s sources are right, Christie decided yes a few weeks ago and this is ‘roll out’ week.

  260. Riccardo Says:

    155…If team Romney is on their game, and I’ll bet they are, the minute Christie declares, they run that youtube piece all over the web. It’s amazing that a guy, who 4 months ago, looked the camera and America in the eye and said…”im not ready” and “i don’t want to be in the WH” can be so persuaded at this point. What are the REp elite offering him?

    What does this tell us about how he’ll react when the Chi Coms are offering him something? Or Putin?

  261. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Carney and his associates’ tweets about Christie have been illuminating since Friday. It’s obvious what they want.

  262. Riccardo Says:

    No way CC competes with three weeks to get his name on 50 ballots. He’ll look like a fool for even trying. What’s team Christie going to tell Murdoch, when he asks why Christie aint on the ballot in SC?

  263. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    260.

    I would love it if Romney declared war on Christie day one. But is Mitt that dumb?

  264. Tim Says:

    “However, all three said the same thing – it’s a family discussion between Christie and his wife Mary Pat, and he could still decide to run.”

    That’s been the company line all weekend. It’s misdirection. If it was no, we would’ve heard pre-Reagn library.

    This whole fundraising trip has really been the first week of his campaign, with the Reagan Library and the Jindal speeches as test runs of his first stump speech. This weekend back in NJ is strategy about this week’s rollout. He decision to run will begin to leak tomorrow into Tuesday followed by the official announcement Wednesday.

    Pawlenty campaign officials are in NJ. Tom Kean (likely campaign chair) is with the governor, his ’09 campaign chair has been called in. It’s a go.

  265. Katechon Says:

    257 – I don’t know!

    Romney can only win it by being the last man standing, by default.

    Romney doesn’t inspire confidence, and he doesn’t channel the stunning rage of “the base “

  266. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Christie’s roadmap is not IA and SC, it’s NH and FL.

    Think Rudy.

  267. Metro Says:

    #266: Christie’s not Rudy and 2012 isn’t 2008. Christie wins SC, and is competitive in IA.

  268. Tim Says:

    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/10/02/christie_avoids_the_media.html

    Christie ducks the media. Avoids having to give a ‘not running’ answer….because it’s no longer the answer. Roll out week!

  269. Try Not To Laugh At My 1.9 GPA perry Says:

    I hope Christie gets in and I hope Cain keeps the perry camp busy talking about that nasty sign at perry’s ranch. Keep up the good work Cain.

  270. Katechon Says:

    ” “It’s not just a function of money – it’s time,” Carney said. “The real question is: Do you want to do this seven days a week? . . . You don’t get a lot of breaks. You don’t get a second chance to make the first impression.”

    It begins to feel -from the leaks – that Christie’s answer is Nope

    He doesn’t want it that much -

  271. Tim Says:

    Bush Adviser: Christie wife on board.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/02/chris-christie-for-president-nj-governor-s-best-reason-to-run-in-2012.html

  272. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    259.Tim Says:
    October 2nd, 2011 at 10:44 pm
    “Habermann is guessing no, she has not been told no. Smack’s sources are right, Christie decided yes a few weeks ago and this is ‘roll out’ week.”

    ===

    I think it all comes down to Mrs. Chris Christie. We know that the Bush wives have called her, right? And Mrs. Reagan’s also encouraged her.

    Plus sources claim she’s fine with it AND I bet the Christies have been getting “go for it, we’re behind you!” calls, texts, e-mails, and tweets all weekend long.

    Bottom line: Big CC’s more likely in than out at the very least.

  273. Katechon Says:

    271 — Hmmmmmm

  274. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    267.

    I especially welcome Christie to compete in IA to split the pro ethanol subsidies vote with Romney allowing the true conservative, Perry an even larger margin of victory.

  275. David Says:

    If he does this Christie isn’t just a big man, he’s got big juevos.

    Unlike Perry he’s got everything to lose – his standing in New Jersey, his reelection, his future presidential prospects.

    It’s like a Viking funeral of political moves. There’s no turning back – it’s victory, or obscurity.

    Just wow.

  276. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    270.

    You are aware that Carney is Perry’s top advisor, not Christies?

  277. David Says:

    #275 – LOL at myself – I didn’t mean Viking ‘funeral,’ obviously. But the point stands…

  278. Reginald from Texas Says:

    Guys, Christie doesn’t have an economic record, no job creation anywhere. Perry and Romney both have that to lean on – it is the biggest issue out there. Obama won the election because he gave great speeches, and the voters fell for it. They won’t make that mistake again. They want real experience in the economy. Christie is an unknown, and he won’t be praying on a stage to get a huge following. He will be trying to appeal to voters that will want to study his experience. His rollout will be very different than Perry’s.

  279. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    275.

    Christie’s only 49, I think. He can EASILY run a couple more times after this. The great Reagan himself ran for the nomination multiple times before winning. Look, we kid around here a lot, but Obama and his multibillion dollar campaign icluding Super PACS will be kinda tough to defeat no matter who we run — even if we dug up Reagan and put sunglasses on him.

  280. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    *including

  281. Katechon Says:

    276 – :)

    Yes!! I’ve read the “brainiest campaign ..ebook.

    I admire Carney a lot.

  282. Bloodshy Says:

    245. “I don’t want to accept the new normal. The new normal is 9% unemployment and a sustained decline which I believe will make this country worse off for generations. I believe we can do better.”

    Now THIS I can agree with. Every time I hear people talk about this “new normal” narrative I want to slap people. We’re in a deep recession–like all others before it, this will not be a persistent economic state.

  283. Katechon Says:

    276- Point was the huge amount of work and energy a presidential campaign requires.

    A true candidate needs to want it with all his heart.

    Christie doesn’t.

  284. David Says:

    #279 – the difference is, if Chrtistie loses (after all his protestations that he wouldn’t even run) his standing in NJ will drop dramatically. Booker probably gets in and beats him.

    He’d be permanently damaged goods.

    Reagan in 1976 (1968 wasn’t really a campaign) & Romney in 2008 were out of office and running “permanent” campaigns. Defeat was less traumatic.

  285. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    FWIW, Palin is in the teens and Christie has been in the high twenties today at InTrade. (re: Chance of Running)

    278.

    I read somewhere that Christie does have a pretty good jobs record in Joysey.

  286. Bloodshy Says:

    275. I agree with you. If Christie runs now it won’t ruin his future, but it will certainly drop him back a couple of pegs. If he does a grate job for 1-2 terms in NJ he’ll be nearly unstoppable. Running now, however, will likely kill his ability to be reelected in NJ in ’14.

  287. Dave Says:

    This thread was a collective waste of time. There IS no national clamor for Christie to run….it’s a media-driven mirage. Cain has accused him of being too liberal to get anywhere in the race, and so would several others on the debate stage, were he to enter.

    He doesn’t connect well with SoCons, and doesn’t know enough about foreign and military policy to get anywhere with DefCons. Mitt has the FiCon vote sewed up. I would predict, in some alternative universe in which Christie were running, that he would enter the race in the high single, or low double digit range.

    But Chris, come on in!! the water’s fine!! Romney wins either way.

  288. Katechon Says:

    275—just wow indeed

    I’d be shocked if Christie jumps in.

  289. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    “I admire Carney a lot” – Kate

    But not his candidate who’s like 13 for 13 in winning elections with Carney’s as his top guru?

  290. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    *Carney

  291. Metro Says:

    #275 answered well in this comment from 5 threads ago:

    Matthew E. Miller Says:
    October 2nd, 2011 at 1:04 am
    If Christie runs, there’s going to be a fair amount of “this is a mistake” talk. And some of it won’t simply be grumbling from supporters of other candidates. But I think Christie’s calculation is pretty simple: no Republican has won re-election in a state as blue as NJ, without seriously moving to the left, in decades. Christie probably won’t win re-election as the national conservative hero. If he wins it at all, it’ll be by moving himself out of consideration as a national candidate- castigating prominent conservatives, endorsing a major liberal policy goal, all the sorts of things blue state Republicans eventually have to do to hang around. Mitt Romney understood this pretty well and didn’t bother running for re-election. He hoped that the ole “hey, but at least I governed as a conservative” line would sell. And it might have, had Obamacare never been enacted. Christie is facing a similar dilemma but actually has people clamoring for him to run. Either he stays in NJ, fights it out as Chris Christie and probably loses to a popular Democrat like Cory Booker, or he stays in NJ, fights it out as a more conservative Scott Brown and probably wins but kills his national aspirations, or he runs for President and hopes that his more conservative starting point and his greater authenticity will make the transition more seamless than Romney’s was. And imagine that he does run for re-election, and he does win as Chris Christie? Then what? Is it obvious that, in 2016, he’ll have an edge over the likes of Rubio, Ryan, and Jindal, all more conservative than him, and all exciting in their own ways? I used to argue that while I wouldn’t mind a Christie run, I thought it was in his best interests to stay out because running for President, and losing, would kill his career in NJ. Well, given that it’s not really clear to me he’s going to have any career in NJ past 2013, and given that staying in NJ almost certainly weakens his chance of ever making a national splash, that calculation no longer makes much sense to me. Maybe Chris Christie won’t run but, as was the case for Ryan, this is really something like a golden moment for him which may never come again.

  292. David Says:

    #287 – you’re dreaming (or thinking of a Huntsman candidacy.)

    Christie is a Republican rock star. His YT videos alone get 100s of thousands of views (with one or two topping a million.)

    How many people clamor like that to hear Mitt Romney?

    Also, I like Mitt, but to claim he’s got the FiCon vote “sewed up” is just laughable.

  293. David Says:

    #291 – Thanks, Metro – very interesting. Not sure if I completely agree, but solid analysis nonetheless.

  294. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    Limbaugh about two hours ago..

    “The GOP establishment is about winning elections. The tea party is about making winning worthwhile.”

  295. Katechon Says:

    291—thAts indeed the sole argument for a run.

    How would you handicap his odds of being reelected as governor?

    Any real threat emerging amongst the Dems in. New Jersey?

  296. Katechon Says:

    289- not anymore. Perry has bombed : he’s now perceived as unreliable on the stage

    Unelectable

  297. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    286.

    Who says that Christie will run for re-elecion unless he thinks it’s a sure thing? Think Romney in Masssachusetts who couldn’t get elected dog catcher anywhere in MA by the end of his lone term.

  298. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    287.

    Who cares what Cain says? Cain will be lucky to finish 4th in IA. And after that, he’s out.

  299. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    296.

    Did you ever see the Bush on the debate stage who was also undefeated? (Oh wait, he might of lost once in the 70’s running for congress or something as an unknown.)

  300. Rick Perry/Jeb Bush 2012! Says:

    *the Bush Jr.

  301. TEX Says:

    David Says:

    #287 – you’re dreaming (or thinking of a Huntsman candidacy.)

    Christie is a Republican rock star.
    ======================================

    The fatso yelling at old ladies on well edited Youtube is a Republican rock star???

    In your warped up dreams!

  302. David Says:

    #301 – as opposed to the ditz who posts well-edited Facebook messages?

  303. TEX Says:

    There is only one Conservative Super Star in America!!!

    Her name is….SARAH PALIN !

  304. rightgal Says:

    303, and she ain’t runnin’. It’s Oct 02, 11:03 pm MST, and no word from the Ice princess on her self-imposed deadline she missed a few days ago.

  305. TEX Says:

    302

    Facebook messages?

    Have you ever heard about “Death Panels”,the term that forced White House
    to change language in ObamaCare not once but twice?

    It was Sarah Palin Facebook post that rattled White House and forced the
    Chicago thugs to make changes.

    You know about it,right?Don’t tell me you are too stupid and uninformed
    that you are oblivious to that unique event.I trust you are not that dumb,
    you must know about it?!

    Please don’t embarrass yourself again like this.
    Next time think long and hard before you open your mouth.

  306. K.G. Says:

    Either Sarah’s hanging back to see what Christie’s going to do–or she ain’t running. Yes, yes, yes, Tex. We know all about death panels, but what’s she going to do? Run on the fact she was the first one to mention “death panels.”

    She was also the first one to mention “shakle-y.”

  307. jack Says:

    oooooh

    It’s not to late for Christy says Race42012, but it IS too late for Palin (says Race42012).

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL………

    note how Christie’s photo is in the center at the top of Race42012, and Palin’s way off to the far end

    doubleLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL………

  308. jack Says:

    K.G.–

    Sarah ain’t hanging back to decide whether to run; she already decided to run.

    She’s just hanging back as to how to and when to “officially” announce for the purposes of strategerie and legally ramifications.

  309. jaxemer11 Says:

    Do we really want a President whose only purpose for running is that he can’t win reelection as Governor?

  310. jack Says:

    and do we really want a President whose only purpose is self-engrandizement rather than service in what’s best for America.

    In other words, if he Christie was gonna wait till 2016 figuring Obama would win in 2012, but now thinks Obama will likely lose in 2012 so wants to run in 2012, THAT MEANS HE’S ONLY IN IT FOR HIMESLF AND NOT COUNTRY.

    Figure it out, because if Christie thinks Obama is already to lose in 2012, then CHRISTIE, per Christie’s own thinking, IS NOT NEEDED TO DEFEAT OBAMA!!!

  311. jack Says:

    Race42012 says:–

    “Christie Insiders: Original Plan was “Christie 2016?”

    What a bunch of sleaze and cynicism if the Chrsitie insiders are accurate here (see my above comment)

  312. Katechon Says:

    303– you still haven’t realised she’s not a candidate?

    Brainwashed

  313. Franklin Says:

    Who says that Christie will run for re-elecion unless he thinks it’s a sure thing?
    ===============================
    The state party has $1.3 million set aside for Christie’s re-election campaign. They have refused to spend any money to increase their numbers in the state house

  314. rightgal Says:

    Jack, thanks for the laugh. When the queens peeps are now making crap up as to why she missed her own deadline, we all just shake our heads and laugh.

  315. Franklin Says:

    Actually the deadline is Oct 28 as that is the last day to file for the NH primary. Also the only serious signature deadline in collecting 10,000 signatures by Dec 22 in Virginia.

  316. Franklin Says:

    Jack, thanks for the laugh. When the queens peeps are now making crap up as to why she missed her own deadline, we all just shake our heads and laugh.
    =====================================================
    You really are a pathetic person. If she runs, she has the right to decide when she gets in.

  317. TEX Says:

    Sarah Palin,the best political mind with the very best political instinct
    in America is playing high stake chess game as a Grand Master,while bunch
    a RINOs are playing checkers.

    She waited Huckabee to drop out like a fly,she watched nut job Bachmann
    go down the tube.Then came corrupt AlGore liberal Ricky Blago Perrych.

    What happen to him?Hahaha……LOL……

    The last hope of corrupt,spineless,despicable GOP establishment is some
    liberal Northeastern fat man from New Joyse.

    Sarahcuda is smiling and waiting to see what the fatso will do.
    If he gets in he will be instantly exposed for the liberal he is,Cain
    already is doing Sarah’s job calling the Youtube yelling fat man a liberal.

    While 7 or whatever number of dwarfs will cut down each other at Oct.11
    debate Gov. Palin will be keynote speaker in Seoul,S.Korea where Gordon
    Brown the former UK Prime Minister and top leaders from 40 countries will
    be second fiddle to American Super Star Sarah Palin!!!

    How many dwarfs were invited to Seoul?!

  318. Katechon Says:

    Suppose for a moment Palin doesn’t run

    Could you see her endorsing Cain??

  319. jack Says:

    Katechon:–

    You go ahead and suppose all you want.

    It’s only of interest to me to deal in reality.

  320. jack Says:

    …and that reality, Palin’s already — long since — running!

    where have you been?

  321. TEX Says:

    312

    You don’t have a brain to be enlightened or brainwashed.
    Hello,anybody home?Empty!

  322. TEX Says:

    318

    Could you see Willard or Blago Perrych(I don’t know who is your loser
    candidate)endorse Herman Cain?!

    How would that work for you?!

  323. petunia Says:

    Darn it is the middle of the night… and I wasted my brillant late night hillarity on the wrong thread.

    Okay so it really isnt’ that brillant or funny but, it is late at night!

    From henceforth he of royal girth, the honorable Lord Chris Christie of Manor Jersey, shall be known as “Christie, the Unready” A fit name for a Nobleman royally chosen by our betters!

  324. Katechon Says:

    322- I don’t have a candidate : I’m just a Canadian gambler!

  325. jack Says:

    …and since some here keep raising Palin’s self-imposed deadline, that deadline, if there was one was that Palin wouldn’t want to string her supporters along after September 30 if she was not gonna run.

    So, by that very deadline, which some here consistently raise, Palin IS running, because it’s now after September 30 — and noone being further strung along with the possibility that she’s not gonna run.

    case closed.

  326. Katechon Says:

    320- I’ve been laying Palin on Intrade!

  327. Katechon Says:

    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/crazy-math-chris-christie-candidacy

  328. jack Says:

    in other words, by that very deadline (9/30/11), if she was not gonna run she would announce same by that date.

    Hence, by that very deadline, she’s running!

  329. TEX Says:

    Katechon,

    If you don’t have a candidate,what are you doing here day in and out?
    Get a life loser!!!

  330. Katechon Says:

    What you mean Tex? I come here like twice or thrice a week!

  331. jack Says:

    Tex, Katechon has no credibility.

    At comment 312, katechon says we’re brainwashed to think Palin is running, and then at comment 326, katechon says he/she’s “laying Palin on Intrade”

  332. Katechon Says:

    331) How does it affect my credibility?

  333. Katechon Says:

    I’ve been betting against Palin to run for a while!

    ,
    Now only the brainwashed Palin cultists still believe she’s gonna run!

  334. TEX Says:

    Jack,

    Katechon has no life,he’s talking crap and nonsense all the time here,
    total,certified loser.Pay no attention to that troll.

  335. Katechon Says:

    334- whatever

  336. Katechon Says:

    334 – at least I put money where my mouth is

  337. jack Says:

    Tex:

    OK, thanks.

  338. TEX Says:

    Todd Palin had a full hour interview on Los Angeles KABC.

    He’s the man’s man,modern day Gary Cooper!

    Sarah Palin/Todd Palin 2012 !!!

  339. Heath Says:

    Laying means betting against.

  340. rightgal Says:

    Tex. Wow. I missed that great interview! Can you post it somewhere?

  341. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Sarah Palin will announce her run tomorrow at 9pm ET on national TV!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

  342. Alonso Dragon Says:

    Thank you for your blog.Really looking forward to read more. Fantastic.

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