August 31, 2011

Perry Nixes Giuliani Veep Pick?

Paul Beddard has the story:

Surging Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry, the Texas governor, has pledged to influential Christian leaders that he will push pro-life policies, oppose gay marriage, and pick cabinet officials and a vice president who share his values, a promise that would rule out a Perry-Rudy Giuliani ticket.

At a weekend Texas gathering of about 200 conservative leaders, some from Washington, Perry and his wife Anita portrayed themselves as authentic and life-long conservatives who could bring the most pro-life administration ever to Washington.

Over four hours of conversational questions and answers Saturday night and another two on Sunday morning, the couple addressed many questions from key players who are still just learning about Perry, the longest-ever serving Texas governor shoved into the presidential race after other big-name governors and former governors bailed out.

Key among the questions Perry fielded was who he would pick as a vice presidential candidate if he wins the nomination. Perry is an ally of Giuliani and endorsed him for president during the 2008 GOP primaries. At the time, he cited the former New York City mayor’s ability to pull the city together after the 9/11 attacks.

Some of those at the weekend conclave said Perry promised to stick to the pledge when considering a vice president and they left believing that meant Giuliani is out of the picture. Perry is currently far ahead of GOP pack in the polls.

The fact that Perry never specifically ruled out selecting Giuliani leads me to believe that too much may have been read into Perry’s statements.

Be sure to read the whole thing.

Hat-tip: Hot Air.

by @ 3:35 pm. Filed under Rick Perry, Rudy Giuliani, Veep Watch
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257 Responses to “Perry Nixes Giuliani Veep Pick?”

  1. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Just because Perry signed the pledge, doesn’t mean he won’t violate it. Pro-lifers will not abandon him for selecting Rudy as VP. In fact, many of them would prefer him to pick Rudy, just because they like people like him.

  2. CF Says:

    Perry was for Giuliani before he was against him, what’s to stop him from being for Giuliani again? That’s what you call a flip-flop-flip!

  3. Thomas Alan Says:

    The only reason to select Giuliani is if you’re looking to pick a convention floor fight.

  4. Reginald Says:

    Even Perry is not stuipid enough to make Giuliani a part of his ticket.

  5. CF Says:

    Drezner compares the two VFW speeches:

    Your humble blogger is badly behind on many day-job activities. As a result, I’m afraid that I can’t comment in detail on Mitt Romney’s foreign policy VFW speech. There was stuff in there that resonated with me and stuff that had me shaking my head.

    My key takeaway, however, is that there was actual stuff in the speech. The contrast with Rick Perry’s VFW speech is pretty striking. Looking at the two of them back-to-back, one can see a similar set of applause lines. The difference is that Romney’s speech contains actual, specitic critiques of Obama’s foreign policies. These critiques can be debated, but at least there’s content to debate about in this speech.

    In contrast, as previously noted, Perry’s speech lacked anything remotely resembling content.

    Perry is a late entry to the 2012 nomination, so maybe this is just a case of being new to the campaign trail. Maybe foreign policy is not a subject that Perry likes to focus on. I honestly don’t know, and I’ll be looking for more content as the campaign intensifies.

    http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/31/a_tale_of_two_vfw_speeches

    You’re not the only one who noticed this, Dan, America did as well.

  6. Not Your Promiscuous Daddy Says:

    Paging Metro.

  7. Win M. Says:

    “Perry and his wife Anita portrayed themselves as authentic and life-long conservatives”

    I’m sure his lifelong conservatism is what prompted him to play a key role in Al Gore’s 1988 presidential campaign.

  8. R42012 Groupie Says:

    Guiliani is a stalking horse for Chris Christie

  9. CraigS Says:

    Geez,
    He already endorsed Giuliani once. I would like to go back and read what glowing comments Perry made at the time he endorsed Rudy. But, no matter. Perry changes his opinion more frequently than a porn star changes her clothes. What will tomorrow bring from behind the fluttering curtains if Austin ?

    CraigS

  10. PabloZed Says:

    Christie has his hands full with the flooding. It would be derelict for him to do anything other than address the needs of NJ right now.

  11. LV Says:

    CraigS

    Is there a new Quinnipiac poll out today showing

    Perry 24….Romney 18?

  12. Reginald Says:

    Perry only became a republican because he wanted to be supported by the tax-payers of Texas. When it became clear that he could not win elections as a democrat and would have to work in the real economy, he had a change of heart and became republican.

  13. Sojourner Truth Says:

    Is there a new Quinnipiac poll out today showing

    Perry 24….Romney 18?

    Yeah. It sort of semi-balances the poll from last night…

    …showing Perry 41, Romney 12.

  14. Ben (One of those MittWitts) Says:

    “Perry and his wife Anita portrayed themselves as authentic and life-long conservatives”

    It’s like I’m living in OZ and the guy is trying to keep the curtain from pulling back and revealing who he really is.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE

    Oops…he really isn’t a great and powerful life-long conservative. He just changed to fit his needs. Oh well – time to check out of OZ.

  15. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    He obviously must of seen my handle :)

  16. Ben (One of those MittWitts) Says:

    13.
    Are you talking about the easily manipulated online poll??

    Oh yeah – great foundation for your argument.

  17. CraigS Says:

    Interesting how the smell kind of permeates the air when we talk about Rick Perry.
    Endorsing Rudy on Oct 17, 2007, he said, ” For the last six months, I have cogitated, I’ve looked, I’ve studied these candidates……and I’m endorsing Rudy Guiliani for President.”
    What he didn’t say is that the law firm of Bracewell and Guiliani were counsel for CINTRA, the Spanish consortium that was tapped to be the contractor for the TTC, Perry’s Super Highway that was going to suck up half of Texas through eminent domain seizures and make Rick and his buddies…..and America’s Mayor, rich as Midas

    CraigS

  18. Sojourner Truth Says:

    16 – Touche.

    But that’s ok.

    A better foundation for my argument is the past three polls taken at roughly the same time.

    Perry +11
    Perry +13
    Perry +10

  19. Reginald Says:

    17. Exactly right. He looked past Giuliani’s pro-abortion stance because there was an angle to make himself and his buddies rich. Perry has routinely put the interests of himself and his donors above those of the residents of his state.

  20. CraigS Says:

    LV
    Yeah, the new poll from Quinnipiac also illustrates the GOP problem

    Among the 39 % of the country that says it is Independent and , obviously, determines elections, Romney is running 8 % ahead of Perry and beating Obama by 6 %. Perry trails the President by 2 %.

    CraigS

  21. Ben (One of those MittWitts) Says:

    Yup –

    and the point that was made re: the Quinnipac poll was that he has lost ground since then. Not pushing one over the other. Perry is leading right now. Good for him. I hope he enjoys it while it lasts. Then he can really sing “I’ll be home for Christmas” as he tucks tail and heads back to TX.

  22. Reginald Says:

    Sojourner, were you also big on Fred Thompson polls in 2008, where he led the race by 20%+ for the first 4-6 weeks after he announced?

  23. CF Says:

    18

    “Perry +11
    Perry +13
    Perry +10″

    Those are nearly three weeks old. He’s now +6 which means he’s dropping.

  24. Matt "MWS" Says:

    So Perry can support Guiliani for President but not Vice President?

    Does that make sense to anyone?

  25. Sojourner Truth Says:

    But he hasn’t lost ground.

    In the last Quinnipiac poll, Perry was at 10 and Romney was at 25. Romney’s lost 1/3 of his support and Perry’s increased his support by 2 1/2 times.

    You have to look at the trend lines between different iterations of the same poll.

  26. Greg Says:

    The masses will be educated on Perry’s record. He doesn’t speak about any specifics or plans, either future tense or past tense. Perry supporters, enjoy the ride while it lasts.

  27. Sojourner Truth Says:

    CF – wrong.

    See 25.

  28. Greg Says:

    25. No Sojourner, you look at polls put out around the same time…

  29. casuist Says:

    The masses will be educated on Perry’s record. He doesn’t speak about any specifics or plans, either future tense or past tense. Perry supporters, enjoy the ride while it lasts.

    I sure am! All the way to the Presidency. 8 years in the White House is an awfully long time though. Do I even deserve that much joy?

  30. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Romney’s in the teens! Romney’s in the teens! Romney’s in the teens!

    REAL CLEAR POLITICS:

    2012 Republican Presidential Nomination

    Poll Date Perry Romney Spread

    RCP Average 8/7 – 8/27 24.2 17.0 Perry +7.2

    Quinnipiac 8/16 – 8/27 24 18 Perry +6

    CNN/OpRes 8/24 – 8/25 27 14 Perry +13

    Gallup 8/17 – 8/21 25 14 Perry +11

    PPP (D) 8/18 – 8/21 27 17 Perry +10

    Rasmus 8/15 – 8/15 29 18 Perry +11

    FOX 8/7 – 8/9 13 21 Romney +8

    So when is the next FOX poll that screwed up the averages? A few days after the next debate. Sweet. 8)

  31. Matt "MWS" Says:

    casuist,

    What do you suppose it means that Perry will have a Vice President and cabinet who “reflect his values”?

    Do you think his choice of President in 2008 reflected those values?

  32. casuist Says:

    In the last Quinnipiac poll, Perry was at 10 and Romney was at 25. Romney’s lost 1/3 of his support and Perry’s increased his support by 2 1/2 times.

    Liar! You see, those who like Romney REALLY like Romney. Those who like Perry are just green with envy at the dazzling light of intellect that radiates from Romney. Soon they too will enter the light of the person of Romney as they raise him up to be their president forever. Or so it was foretold.

  33. Sojourner Truth Says:

    25. No Sojourner, you look at polls put out around the same time…

    Yes! Let’s do that!

    Quinnipiac – 8/16 to 8/27 – Perry +6
    CNN – 8/24 to 8/25 – Perry +13
    Gallup – 8/17 to 8/21 – Perry +11
    PPP – 8/18 to 8/21 – Perry +10

    You lose.

  34. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    24

    Since the Perrybots won’t answer, I will. They have a tendency to look facts and reason in the face and swat them away like flies.

    The answer is: NO. It makes NO sense. So either Perry is not dedicated the to the pro-life cause, or he’s a backstabber.

  35. hamaca Says:

    24. Matt “MWS”,

    In Perryland it makes perfect sense.

  36. Viking Says:

    Dan Drezner is a liberal, along with a crazed, fourteen old boy like zombie enthusiast.

  37. Ben (One of those MittWitts) Says:

    Matt -

    It is pointless to ask such logical questions of casuist or Craig.

    What Perry did in the past means nothing of what he portrays himself as today. Today is all that matters. Former democrat? doesn’t matter. Former Hillarycare supporter? Doesn’t matter. Former gov’t intervention for a vaccine mandate of teen girls? Doesn’t matter. Shady deals for campaign contributors? Doesn’t matter. Supported Giuliani as president but doesn’t think he’d be quality VP material now? Doesn’t matter.

    Don’t talk about the past. Perry’s a completely different person now. He’s the flavor of the month and he’s currently ahead of Romney – so that’s all that matters. As long as he says he thinks differently about all of that – that’s all that matters.

  38. casuist Says:

    What do you suppose it means that Perry will have a Vice President and cabinet who “reflect his values”?

    Wow. Great question you there in the back in the sequinned g-string and pasties. This will require a hermeneutic exertion beyond my competence, but I will try. When Perry says he wants a cabinet that reflects his values, I think he means–though I could be wrong!—that he wants a cabinet—yeah, that’s right, a cabinet—that—wait a minute, wait a minute—got it! He wants a cabinet that reflects his values. Yes, I know that my interpretation is a stretch, but work with me here. Work with me.

  39. CF Says:

    36

    “Dan Drezner is a liberal, along with a crazed, fourteen old boy like zombie enthusiast.”

    Seems to me that the liberals in the media are the only ones telling the truth about Rick Perry lately.

  40. Sojourner Truth Says:

    MAJOR TEA PARTY GROUP TO PROTEST ROMNEY’S TEA PARTY DEBUT

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/31/major-tea-party-group-to-protest-romney-tea-party-debut/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_politicalticker+%28Blog%3A+Political+Ticker%29

  41. Greg Says:

    38. Are they Perry’s values as gorvernor of Texas, when he wanted to dismantle social security and enrich his biggest donors, or are they the values of today, as he is backpedaling from all of his biggest initiatives?

  42. Sojourner Truth Says:

    The group accused the Republican presidential candidate of suddenly “pandering” to conservative activists “because he’s getting challenged from [Minnesota Rep. Michele] Bachmann and [Texas Gov. Rick] Perry and even [Texas Rep.] Ron Paul.”

    FreedomWorks’ actions at the Tea Party Express rally in Concord could spark some unusual infighting amongst conservatives. The result may be some Republicans lining up against Romney on the campaign trail and some tea partiers publicly opposing other tea partiers.

  43. LV Says:

    Everything about Perry is corrupt..

  44. casuist Says:

    It is pointless to ask such logical questions of casuist or Craig.

    Oh, pur-leeze. It’s not pointless really. It’s just an invitation to talk about RomneyCare in the anticipation that one of you Rombats will take the bait to defend it, which happens all the freakin’ time even when you know perfectly well how the game is played, even when I explain to you how the game is played.

  45. Greg Says:

    I ask Sojourner if he/she knew much about Perry’s record as governor a couple of weeks ago, and he/she said she did not want to know. None of them are arguing that he has a poor record on immigration, government spending, state debt, education, health care, expanded government, etc. They’re just hoping that nobody else cares about his record either.

  46. hamaca Says:

    37. That’s Perryland, where Perry can say this or that, take this position, then the opposite, flip then flop, engage in those shady deals, refuse to answer questions, poke people with his finger, and so much more! And his fans–the barking, clapping seals–just, well, keep barking and clapping with glee. It’s so very happy over there and will be regardless whether Rick or Mitt wins!

  47. Matt "MWS" Says:

    casuist,

    That was a pretty lame dodge from someone whose wit I’d come to admire over the years.

    Let me be more specific…..

    When Ricky P promises a cabinet that “reflects his values” it is expected by SoCons that this should be a dog whistle meaning that he will only appoint pro-lifers where it matters, including his possible successor.

    So the more specific version of my question is…….. “Is valuing the right to life included in the ‘values’ of Rick’s which must be reflected in his cabinet appointments and Vice Presidential selection?”

    If so, why did he endorse Rudy for President last time?

    If not, isn’t he being a bit disingenuous by leading SoCons on like that?

  48. Greg Says:

    At least 80% of the residents in Massachusetts like their health care plan. I am sure that Perry would be quick to argue that states should be allowed to do what they want with health care at the state level. He’s all for letting states do what they want. Romney gave Massachusetts a health care plan that they really, really like, and he has promised to give all states a waiver to get out of Obamacare as his first order of business. It’s an easy argument – states have the right to put together their own health care plans and tailor them to the needs of their residents.

  49. Ben (One of those MittWitts) Says:

    It’s just an invitation to talk about RomneyCare in the anticipation that one of you Rombats will take the bait to defend it, which happens all the freakin’ time even when you know perfectly well how the game is played, even when I explain to you how the game is played.

    Sorry for all of you that have a broken Perrywinkle translator. Let me help you. “It is an invitation for me to dodge yet another issue w/ Perry and try to keep playing the one note on the instrument that I hold while trying to keep the curtain drawn so people don’t get to see how bad Perry really is.”

    casuist – let me be of any assistance if you need further Perry garble to be translated for the rest of the folks. Thanks,

  50. LV Says:

    Dick Army and FreedomWorks is already on record saying that they will spend every cent they have to keep Romney from getting the nomination….

    ….This is the destructive force of power and money.

  51. Reginald from texas Says:

    48. Perry has supported the auto insurance mandate here in Texas. It mandates that drivers have auto insruance, regardless of their driving prowess and personal preference.

  52. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Perry didn’t know at the time that Iowan/Minnesotan Bachmann, Floridian Rubio, and Virginian McDonnell would be all the rage.

    But the cool kids know that Rudy is yesterday’s news.

    (Now watch Perry go pick Rudy, that cagey Texan!)

  53. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Greg,

    With all do respect, we’re trying to figure out if Cas can make Perry seem more committed to the right to life than Mitt, not follow the ceaseless rabbit trail he’s desperate to lead you on.

  54. Sojourner Truth Says:

    48. Perry has supported the auto insurance mandate here in Texas. It mandates that drivers have auto insruance, regardless of their driving prowess and personal preference.

    I guess it’s easier to take a bus than it is to hold my breath.

  55. Matt "MWS" Says:

    P/B and J

    Do you think the right to life is part of the values that Ricky P’s cabinet has to reflect?

  56. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Sojo,

    Do you think the right to life is part of the values that Ricky P’s cabinet has to reflect?

  57. hamaca Says:

    The Perrywinkles ability to bob, weave, and dodge any discussion regarding Perry’s record or issues puts Rombots to shame. There’s no comparison. They are clearly the more talented crowd.

    Where are all our resident beard scratchers in the face of all this blasphemy? Silent?

  58. CraigS Says:

    Can’t Argue Strongly Unless I Suspend Truth ( Yes, I broke the code )
    Boy, I know there are a lot of enthusiastic Romney supporters , but you ROMBOTS are really whacked out. You must know very little, at least about polls. If you think August polling is definitive or means anything about April results other than more commercial spots for the cable companies, you truly are on something illegal.

    CraigS

  59. Sojourner Truth Says:

    56 – I don’t see it as necessarily contradictory. Perry had no intention of running for president in 2008. Perhaps he saw Giuiliani as the best of what options were available in 2008. Perhaps Giuliani assured Perry he would appoint pro-life jurists if he were to become president.

    Even a candidate’s most enthusiastic supporter might find some issues (Maybe cabinet staffing)where he disagrees with the candidate he strongly supports. Rice was pro-choice, after all.

    Maybe I support Candidate X – but that doesn’t mean I would do everything as Candidate X would if I decided to run for political office myself.

    Let’s hear Perry clarify.

  60. Jerry Says:

    I hope Romney does not pander to the freedomwork fools…

  61. Sojourner Truth Says:

    I’m just more curious how Romney is going to run as a pro-lifer and still never waiver in defending a woman’s right to choose :)

  62. Matt "MWS" Says:

    hamaca,

    “Where are all our resident beard scratchers in the face of all this blasphemy? Silent?”

    I’m workin’ on it! See 24, 31, 47, 53, 55, and 56.

    The slippier the fish, the longer it takes to nail down!

  63. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Matt,

    Are you along with Mac STILL bitter about Perry endorsing Rudy and McCain over Huck in Texas a long time ago?

    And here I thought only Rombots were bitter about the plethora of ’08 endorsements that didn’t go poor Mitt’s way. Grow up. Look, there’s a time to move on, forgive, and forget. No grudges. No glory. We’ve gotta defeat Obama with a conservative. Even Rombot Bill O’Reilly said last night that Perry is much more conservative than his guy, Romney. “Perhaps even too conservative” -is how he put it — whatever that means, Billo.

    Whatever.

    Repeat after me, then drop it and concentrate on taking back the White House, Supreme Court, ans Senate — Say three times: They’re selfish politicians! Every one! Their minds are warped! Every one! They endorse for reasons only God knows why! Every one!

  64. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    Is there any doubt now what the agenda is at this point. Dick Armey and his group amongst the tea party movement? Can you not see what I’m saying about how the Socons and mainly evangelicals are taking the Republican Party to the fringes at the expense of conservatism? It’s happening right in front of your eyes…true conservatives are being played.

  65. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Sojo,

    “I don’t see it as necessarily contradictory. Perry had no intention of running for president in 2008.”

    It doesn’t matter if Perry had any intention of running in 2008. In 2008, he was the President of his vote, and his endorsement. If he means to imply that his Vice President must reflect his supposed respect for the right to life, why did he select a President in 2008 that didn’t reflect his supposed values?

    I mean, if the right to life isn’t one of those values that his cabinet must reflect, then Ricky P ought to man up and tell us, instead of leading the SoCons on to believe that he’s something he’s not.

    Is he just an opportunist?

    A charlatan?

    A coward?

    All three?

  66. Reginald from texas Says:

    I think that there will be a lot of infigting amongst tea partiers in this cycle. The tea partiers here in Texas do not support Perry, and we’re getting organized about it. We’re going to start traveling around and opposing Perry at several of his campaign stops. Perry is not a true tea partier, and his record reflects it.

  67. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    Socons aren’t true conservatives outside of their conservative values which I care for as much as the next socon but what about everything else? Fiscal responsibility, integrity, rule of law?

  68. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    66 – thank you. I appreciate the wisdom in doing that.

  69. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig Perry,

    “Are you along with Mac STILL bitter about Perry endorsing Rudy and McCain over Huck in Texas a long time ago?”

    Not in the slightest.

    What I am interested in is separating the sheep from the goats when it comes to the right to life. And when Ricky P endorses a pro-choicer in one election, and then implies he would only select pro-lifers in the next election, he’s exposing himself as a goat.

  70. mac Says:

    Craig,
    63.
    “Matt,

    Are you along with Mac STILL bitter about Perry endorsing Rudy and McCain over Huck in Texas a long time ago?”

    Bitterness over that whole affair is entirely my gig, I’ve never seen Matt/MWS mention it.

  71. Sojourner Truth Says:

    why did he select a President in 2008 that didn’t reflect his supposed values?

    I don’t know. He’ll need to explain it.

  72. Greg Says:

    The tea partiers will break into two factions – the southern evangelicals and those that oppose big government and out-of-control spending. The former will support Perry and the latter will fall in behind Romney.

  73. Sojourner Truth Says:

    And when Ricky P endorses a pro-choicer in one election, and then implies he would only select pro-lifers in the next election, he’s exposing himself as a goat.

    Let’s hear his reason first – before we go that far.

    After all, the guy does have a decades-long pro-life record.

  74. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Sojo,

    Thanks for the intellectual honesty. But if his explanation is not forthcoming or satisfactory, what will you do?

  75. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Romney appointed pro abortion judges. No problemo for Mittens. Sorry, babies. Romney was pro abortion till he turned 60, then decided that wouldn’t sell if he wanted to run for president. Voila! Willard hates abortion. Romney endorses every Republican pro abortion candidate he can find during the midterms of 2010. You name it! Again, sorry little babies trying to be born.

    Game. Set. Match.

  76. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    72 – My problem is that this didn’t have to be if the advancement of conservatism in all forms was the goal. The Socon faction to me is pretty big right now and I would soon not run as a tea party candidate. It’s toxic and only going to get more toxic. It’s already begun. The tea party is being labeled as racist as we speak. It’s wrong but no one is going to touch the party outside the primary.

  77. hamaca Says:

    62. Ah yes, let the record show that one beard scratcher has shown the courage to step forward against the prevailing winds.

    Speaking of fish, maybe if we throw one of the seals a fish, they’ll bark, clap, and say “RomneyCare”.

    Interesting counter argument of theirs when challenged on something in Perry’s record: “Well, Romney did it.”

  78. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    73 – thanks but that’s a dishonest comment. I call bullsh** before he even speaks, after all no one was going to buy Romney’s stance on pro-life, excuse and all regardless of the answer.

  79. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig Perry,

    I’m not talking about Romney. I’ve talked about Romney and abortion in a thousand threads.

    What do you have to say for your candidate?

  80. Sojourner Truth Says:

    But if his explanation is not forthcoming or satisfactory, what will you do?

    I don’t think there is any way, given the structure of the current GOP, where an explanation won’t be forthcoming. Somewhere someone who is a single issue pro-lifer is going to bring it up and he’s going to have to have a good answer.

    If it’s not “satisfactory” – I dunno. I’d feel comforted by his record, and there’s no way I’m ever voting for Romney. But I would certainly lose some enthusiasm.

  81. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    73.Sojourner Truth Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 5:20 pm
    “After all, the guy does have a decades-long pro-life record.”

    ===

    Bingo! Decades!

  82. Matt "MWS" Says:

    hamaca,

    It’s not really courage. I’m really just a grouchy contrarian….

  83. Sojourner Truth Says:

    78 – Perry has a two decades long record of pro-life governance. Perry never said he would “never waiver on defending a woman’s right to choose”. Perry never signed health care legislation providing increased access to $50 abortions (I don’t care about the state law – no one held a gun to Romney’s head and made him sign the bill).

    You can’t equate the two.

  84. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    I’m afraid this election is going to devolve this way:

    {Mitt Romney did it. Rick Perry did it too.

    So who is your personal choice?}

    Some people will account for electability. Others will account for identity politics. The reasons to choose between the two are many, even aside from issues.

  85. hamaca Says:

    82. I know. But “courage” fit the metaphor better.

  86. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    79.

    Matt,

    See 81. “decades”. Period.

  87. LV Says:

    #60..Jerry…

    I hope Romney goes to the rally and I hope FreedomWorks protests…This will make Romney look VERY good…and it will possibly be the end of FreedomWorks.

  88. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig Perry,

    And what did those “decades” mean when it came to choosing his President in 2008?

    Jack.

    Shit.

  89. Matt "MWS" Says:

    So why should we believe that the right to life is one of Rick’s values that is essential in his cabinet?

    We shouldn’t, because he publicly told everyone in 2007 that we shouldn’t.

  90. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    83- Neither did Romney, please don’t lie. Just because you’ve been pro-life all your political career doesn’t mean that you can set your own rules. Romney understands that. Why is it that Perry is above hypocrisy? There should be no circumstance where that’s acceptable to a Socon purist. You can’t hedge and think no one will notice. This ain’t Kansas (or Texas) anymore Dorothy…welcome to the big leagues.

  91. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    We have two candidates to take on Obama.

    One is lifelong pro-life, one since he got old BUT still endorses pro abortion candidates (see 2010)

    And then we can compare job creation between the two, then Romneycare versus Texas free market healthcare, and finally who is best equipped to take the fight to the White House and their BILLION DOLLAR financed golden boy.

    I’m going with Perry. Period.

  92. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Speaking of “decades” and Rick’s vaporous commitment to pro-life executives…..

    Al Gore was pro-life before he started running for President in ’88. He flipped to pro-choice, and Ricky P embraced him as a brother.

    Not much has changed, I guess.

  93. Sojourner Truth Says:

    I’m afraid this election is going to devolve this way:

    {Mitt Romney did it. Rick Perry did it too.

    So who is your personal choice?}

    And it’s more than that. It’s “Rick Perry did it” followed by, “Romney did it worse!”

    Rombots complain about Perry on the border. Romney supported the McCain amnesty plan. He said it was a “good idea”.

    Rombots so far haven’t complained about Perry on the life issue. It’s not because they think Romney’s so far ahead that they don’t need to make the case.

    Romney raised fees almost a billion dollars. That hurts a lot more than balancing a bidget helps.

    Perry has the advantage in identity politics. Perry has the advantage in actual conservative governance (and Romney isn’t going to get extra credit because he had to govern a more liberal state. Sorry. It just doesn’t work that way).

    All of this is why objectively, personal wishes aside, I have a very tough time envisioning Romney beating Perry.

  94. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig Perry,

    “We have two candidates to take on Obama.”

    Not true. Until a few days ago, you would have included Michele in there too.

    But the race is still fluid, and anyone who claims that the finals are set is a fool.

    For those committed pro-lifers who want the Real Deal with executive governing experience, there’s only one. Jon Huntsman.

  95. Sojourner Truth Says:

    94 – You’re going to have to let that ship sail sooner or later.

    So-cons, by and large, are going to be fine with Perry. He’s no worse than Dubya.

    Huntsman is weak on the gays. Huntsman has essentially ridiculed “creationism”

    Ergo, Huntsman has no natural base.

    Fight the good fight on principle. But we both know that on Primary Day – it’s not going to be Huntsman that gets your vote when the only viable candidates are Perry and Romney.

  96. Metro Says:

    MWS, quite a few pro-lifers endorsed Rudy in 2008. Do you think they’re all secretly pro-choice?

    Endorsers rarely agree with a candidate on every major issue. They’re endorsing the person along with a majority of their positions.

  97. Metro Says:

    If this article is right, I’m truly on the fence about Perry and Romney, disliking both equally. Well, I was pretty much already there.

  98. Sojourner Truth Says:

    And as to the claims that Romney would wipe the floor with Perry on business experience…

    When has that ever happened before? Executive experience running a state has ALWAYS ruled the roost (with the exception of military hero Eisenhower).

    Basically when Romney touts his CEO experience the masses hear, “I’m a better nerd than he is!”

    Again – I just don’t see how Romney defeats Perry.

  99. thetruth Says:

    If you listen to CASUIST, you would have have to conclude that Mr. Perry was the biggest FLIP-FLOPPER of all time.

    Flipped on the teenage girl mandate
    flopped on the Hillary health care
    flipped on the Illegal alien freeway
    flopped on the dream act
    Flipped on GIULIANI
    etc….
    etc…..
    etc……

    lets just call him Ricky Cotton tail, flipity flopity………..

    I really think Perry would do better if casuist and the other hacks started to rout for his competitors.

  100. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Sojo,

    I disagree with Hunts on civil unions, but I think the right to life is more important. And it’s critical that we drive the money changers from the temple on this issue.

    The President has nil to nothing to do with creationism. God did it, not the President.

    Finally, we don’t yet know who will be on my ballot. Who foresaw Huck’s rise? Rudy’s and Fred’s collapse? McCain’s death and resurrection?

    Waaaaaaaay too soon for declaring finalists. Let’s spend at least the next few months fighting for the guy (or gal) that we actually believe in, instead of assuming things we can’t yet know.

  101. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Matt,

    Some would say that backing a 1% candidate in the month of September before the primaries is foolish.

    About 12 politicians in and not in the race currently — would have to drop dead for Huntsman to be our nominee.

  102. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Metro,

    “MWS, quite a few pro-lifers endorsed Rudy in 2008. Do you think they’re all secretly pro-choice?”

    Money changers in the temple.

    “Endorsers rarely agree with a candidate on every major issue.”

    Right. Just like Jon and I on civil unions. But the right to life is a deal breaker for me, and it should be for anyone who really, truly believes that the right to live is at stake.

  103. teledude Says:

    Breaking news!!

    This just in!

    From the Des Moines Register:

    A reporter estimated 80 people (including vendors) at Michele Bachmann Tea Party Express event in Des Moines Iowa today.

    80 people!

    Can you say, pull the plug Michele?

  104. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig,

    “Some would say that backing a 1% candidate in the month of September before the primaries is foolish.”

    Whatever. This isn’t the general election, and my vote for Huntsman isn’t going to put Obama in the White House.

    I’m casting a vote for principled commitment to the right to life, among other things.

  105. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Yet you know Romney is the wrong candidate per your dealbreaker, Matt. Right?

  106. Sojourner Truth Says:

    102 – What if Perry said that…

    A) Giuliani assured him he would appoint only pro-lifers to SCOTUS and the circuit courts

    and

    B) Perry thought only Giuliani had a prayer of beating Obama and found it far preferable to go with the imperfect guy whom thought could actually win?

    How does MWS vote then, assuming it’s Super Tuesday and Huntsman has 1 % in the Gallup poll?

  107. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig,

    Mitt’s a flipflopper of unknown commitment. Rick’s a sellout and corrupt.

  108. hamaca Says:

    98. ST–I can respect your last few comments–they are genuine and respectful. It won’t surprise you that I have a differing view, however that’s why they play the game.

    As far as touting the CEO experience, I suspect that there is somewhat of a backlash out there against career politicians. Whether Romney is seen as a solution will be case by case, voter by voter. Time will tell whether this will gain traction.

  109. MarqueG Says:

    MWS, Giuliani campaigned as “personally pro-life” and promised to govern as such. I know for a bunch of pro-lifers, that fell on deaf ears. But for people like Perry who knew him personally, they might have actually taken Rudy at his word.

    I’d also say that, if anyone ever paid attention to Rudy’s rhetorical skills, they’d have to admit that he’s probably one of the most persuasive advocates for a cause you could ever hope to find. He could talk more choicers into questioning their approval of abortion more effectively than most.

  110. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Matt,

    It will be very interesting if you hold true to that dealmaker when you wake up to the reality that it is Perry versus Romney. And no others.

    I’ll be a watchin’ 8)

  111. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Sojo,

    I would still vote for Huntsman.

    I cannot believe in a thousand years that some commitment to life prompted Perry’s endorsement of Guiliani.

    If that were the case, he give more than $50 out of his fortune to his church.

  112. I said it so it must be so Says:

    thetruth Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    “…Ricky Cotton tail, flipity flopity…”

    LOL

  113. thetruth Says:

    @ perry/bachmann

    are you saying that if it was down to Obama or Romney, you wouldn’t vote for Romney????????

  114. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig,

    If/when Hunts drops out, I’ll cross that bridge.

    Perry and Mitt both suck when it comes to the right to life.

  115. Sojourner Truth Says:

    108 – Thanks. I know I get sucked into (and sometimes cause) flame wars. We all seem to have reflexive support/dislke for certain candidates. I like to think I can explain where I’m coming from too, when the spirit moves me.

  116. Conservative Gladiator Says:

    My guess from a strategic standpoint is that the liberals are pushing the tea party to the far right to neutralize their effectiveness to only the primary. You wanna know why Maxine Waters wanted to be unleashed? There you go. Let the race baiting begin. This backed by the MSM, unions, educators and nothing from the President is good as done. The tea party will be toxic in the general. The hope for liberals is that a tea party guy or gal wins in the primary. The tea party candidate enters as a racist bigot who will have to tack so far back to the center that it will be too late.

    You’re going to see Democrats praising Romney as above the fray. This is a diversion in an attempt to get Perry. If Perry won’t work they’ll push Bachmann and then finally try and get Palin in. The tea party and conservative media already think Romney to weak to face Obama which I don’t understand because he polls best against him but okay. The liberal media knows Romney isn’t a tea party favorite which make their push more difficult with him there. This will be non stop until they’re safe and the tea party is as fringe far right as possible. Rush and Hannity and whoever else are already trying to stem the tide of race baiting but it’s too late. The MSM, Unions, and the elite educators of this land are already on top of it. The time is now to consider jumping off that tea party ship. It’s going nowhere outside the Republican Party fast.

  117. MarqueG Says:

    Let’s spend at least the next few months fighting for the guy (or gal) that we actually believe in,

    Hmm. Maybe it’s finally time for me to come out of the closet as this site’s only dedicated McCotterBot.

  118. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Marque,

    “Giuliani campaigned as “personally pro-life” and promised to govern as such.”

    I don’t remember that. I remember him affirming that he’s pro-choice, but would appoint “strict constructionist judges” with a couple pleading winks and a few hopeful nudges.

  119. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    107.

    Matt,

    Stick to the question. You’re bobbing and weaving. Unless your ridiculous point is that Perry is a sellout and corrupt regarding abortion.

    Let’s talk a dealmaker regarding the LIFE issue versus your dealbreaker regarding the LIFE issue since you brought it up.

    Who broke your deal, Romney or Perry? And why?

  120. hamaca Says:

    115. Nothing wrong with some good old fashioned flame wars. Politics wouldn’t be the same without ‘em. Good to still keep a foot in reality for the more serious discussions as you’ve demonstrated.

  121. thetruth Says:

    @ perry/bachmann

    once again,

    are you saying that if it was down to Obama or Romney, you wouldn’t vote for Romney????????

  122. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    History is against Perry winning the nomination

    In the history of the republican party, any Candidate who have pushed the religion angles has always lost.

    Pat Robertson,
    Huckabee,

    and now Perry.

    He is toast.

  123. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig,

    Stick to what question?

    Who’s more trustworthy on the right to life between Mitt and Rick?

    I have no idea. Mitt has shown himself to blow with the winds, and Rick has shown himself to be of low character.

  124. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Gotta’ go.

    Will check back. Probably at about comment #234.

  125. mac Says:

    “Perry versus Romney. And no others.”

    No, if the need arises, one can always exit via the Ron Paul escape hatch and, barring Huck on Mitt’s ticket, that’s likely the way I’ll vote in the FL primary.

  126. Sojourner Truth Says:

    thunder,

    Perry isn’t pushing the “religion angle” anymore than Bush did.

    The only reason you think so is because (as you demonstrated in the last post) you are a little paranoid about some secret evangelical plot to not allow Mormons into their tree house after school.

  127. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Matt,

    You may be the only person in America to say that Perry is not 100% pro life.

    Congrats. That makes you special. Wrong, mind you but so “special”. :)

  128. David Says:

    This is actually a terrific, pro-growth plan by Huntsman. Shame it’s part of one of the worst campaigns in modern memory.

    http://www.jon2012.com/jon-email/TimeToCompete.pdf

  129. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    Sojourner Truth Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    thunder,

    Perry isn’t pushing the “religion angle” anymore than Bush did.
    ============================================================
    Bush never pushed the religion angle… so try again. That year Orin Hatch ran for president and religion never came up.

    The only reason you think so is because (as you demonstrated in the last post) you are a little paranoid about some secret evangelical plot to not allow Mormons into their tree house after school.
    ===================================================================================================
    What Paranoid, they have actually said it. That’s why if Perry gets the nomination, I will not vote for him, period.

  130. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Matt,

    You may be the only person in America to say that Perry is not 100% pro life.
    ==========================================================================
    He was pro-choice before he became a republican, so yes, Perry is not 100% pro life, he is just a flim flam man. He even supported Rudy over Huckabee. So, you are completely wrong. Of course as long as they say they are born again, you will vote for them, the country be damned.

  131. Sojourner Truth Says:

    129 – FreedomWorks isn’t Perry, last time I checked.

    Weak.

    Perry hasn’t said a flippin’ thing about the Mormons. And he’s no more devout with his prayer meetings than when Bush called Jesus his favorite philosopher.

  132. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    # Sojourner Truth Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    129 – FreedomWorks isn’t Perry, last time I checked.

    Weak.

    Perry hasn’t said a flippin’ thing about the Mormons. And he’s no more devout with his prayer meetings than when Bush called Jesus his favorite philosopher.
    ====================================================================
    I said nothing about freedomworks, and Bush was answering a question,he wasn’t making a compaign issue.

    I have got to the point where I can’t stand most political active Evangelicals (not all, many actually think). I use to think that I had a lot in common with them, a moral code, and belief in Christian principles, but now, I think many of them are on the edge of just acting to destroy this nation by pushing a very un-intelliegent man on this nation instead of someone who can bring this nation back from the brink. Perry can’t beat Obama because of his stance on Social Security, but Romney can. Yet, you nut balls are going to destroy this nation by pushing Perry even though he is probable the worst candidate running. God help us all, because many pig headed Evangelicals want to destroy this nation in the name of Religious purity.

  133. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Theruth,

    Didn’t we go over this already?

    1 Huck
    2 Perry
    3 Bachmann
    4 Rubio
    5 Jeb
    .
    .
    .
    .
    1,000,000 Romney
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    1,000,000,000 Obama

  134. MarqueG Says:

    That’s why if Perry gets the nomination, I will not vote for him, period.

    My, conditions are getting harsh on the good ship Romneybot. The crew hadn’t started threatening to vote for Obama last time until way late in the primary campaign.

    How long before they stage a mutiny and resort to cannibalism?

  135. Sojourner Truth Says:

    I said nothing about freedomworks

    Yes you did. In the other thread from earlier today, one of the other Rombots said,

    There is no doubt in my mind that the evangelicals are engaged in a one-way underground holy war.

    To which you replied,

    Actually, the evidence is overwhelming. The Freedom works tea party organization head admitted it. There is no other way to explain why the vast majority of Evangelicals are voting against Romney and willing to jump on any band wagon that threatens Romney. </blockquote.

    So yeah. Kinda paranoid.

  136. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    132.

    You sure talk about religion a whole lot — on a “grassroots conservatives versus moderate, Romney POLITICAL” website.

  137. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    # MarqueG Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    That’s why if Perry gets the nomination, I will not vote for him, period.

    My, conditions are getting harsh on the good ship Romneybot. The crew hadn’t started threatening to vote for Obama last time until way late in the primary campaign.

    How long before they stage a mutiny and resort to cannibalism?
    ===================================================================
    I was okay with Michelle Bachmann, she acted with dignity, but Rick Perry is a dunce and there is no legitimate reason to support him except for his religion. The republican party is on the verge of going the way of the wigs because of the lack of moral code by so many hard core Evangelicals.

  138. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Thunder,

    Don’t they have websites out there like religion.com or mormomnsarethebest.com or something like that where you would feel more at home — instead of being so frustrated talking about your religion here?

  139. Sojourner Truth Says:

    The republican party is on the verge of going the way of the wigs

    If Republicans vote for Romney (and that hair) we might as well be going the way of the ‘wigs’.

  140. hamaca Says:

    137. What do you have against wigs?

  141. Greg Says:

    There is a alot of infighting amongst the tea party at the moment. It will split into two factions, if not more.

  142. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:
    August 31st, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    132.

    You sure talk about religion a whole lot — on a “grassroots conservatives versus moderate, Romney POLITICAL” website
    ===========================================================================================
    I didn’t bring it up…. but frankly I am sick of the under tone from guys like you. I notice that you only list Evangelicals in your preferred list. Why is that, I will tell you, your a religious bigot. Can you name me one coherent speech that Perry has every given, one great debate performance, can you name me one thing that he has proposed on his own that you think is note worthy?

  143. GetReal Says:

    When was it ever in Perry’s political interests to be anything other than Pro-Life. Its not exactly a courageous, “we never will have need to doubt this guy” type of stand to be Pro-Life while running in Texas. Pawlenty was the only one to run as Pro-Life in a blue state, and he dropped out. The only thing we have to go on with Rick Perry having any opposition to his view is when faced with having a candidate he liked who was Pro-Choice, and others he might not have liked as much in other ways. You saw what he did then. What would he do when faced with REAL political opposition?

    As far as the McCain immigration bill goes, Romney said it was “a good idea” BEFORE the Z Visa (i.e. the blanket amnesty) was added, and as Romney said at the time, that was the deal breaker.

  144. hamaca Says:

    138. You brought up religion yesterday with your quote from Business Insider.

  145. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Didn’t we go over this already?

    1 Huck
    2 Perry
    3 Bachmann
    4 Rubio
    5 Jeb

    “I notice that you only list Evangelicals in your preferred list.” – Thunder

    Religious Nut Thunder, (your new handle from now on)

    I don’t even know what religion Jeb and Rubio are? Do you? And why do you care sooooooooooo much?

  146. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Maybe Hamaca can help you. He’s also an overly obsessed religious nut from back in Rightosphere’s days of old.

  147. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    I’m a bigot because I don’t have a muslim candidate, jehovah’s witness candidate, or scientologist candidate in my top five, too?

    Get lost, . “RNT”

  148. hamaca Says:

    P/B–I just find it curious that you’d wag your finger at Thunder for discussing how religion might impact votes when you yourself included the following in one of your comments–this was the part you even put in bold for special emphasis:

    Romney’s problem is four-fold: he’s politically “fungible” (to put it politely), he’s from the wrong region of the country (New England), he’s of the wrong religion (Mormonism) and he’s too closely identified with Wall Street (Bain Capital). The Republican base would prefer to nominate a strong conservative, evangelical Christian from the Sunbelt who, at the least, shares their disdain for Wall Street’s reckless stewardship of the nation’s financial system.

  149. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Does anyone on this blog like Perry who isn’t a total loser?

    Well… there are a couple. But they rarely post comments, and when they do, they are usually short and succinct.

  150. hamaca Says:

    P/B,

    It was on the South Carolina post–comment #250. Easy to find. And, given the lack of an edit feature, your comment is still there for all to see. You are unable to delete it or change it to hide the evidence as you used to do so frequently at ROS. No wonder you keep petitioning for an edit feature! :)

  151. casusit Says:

    If so, why did he endorse Rudy for President last time?

    Because Rudy can select his own cabinet, but what does this have to do with that massive government entitlement regime called RomneyCare, which became the policy-model for ObamaCare, a progressive solution from a progressive candidate who wants to cross-dress as a conservative, one Willard Romney? Try to stay on topic, K?

  152. Reginald from texas Says:

    There are a lot of us tea partiers that are against expanded government, and we couldn’t care less about religion. Give me a candidate who has not grown government under his watch, and you’ll get my vote. The tea party was never about religion; it was about the role of government.

  153. hamaca Says:

    151. You’re right–it has absolutely nothing to do. And at the same, the question could be asked, what does RomneyCare have to do with Rick’s and Rudy’s commitment to life? A gander at the title of this post would lead one to believe the topic is Rick and Rudy. So who’s not staying on topic?

  154. Reginald from texas Says:

    Perry backed Al Gore, who was pro-choice, against the pro-life republican candidate. Then he backed Giuliani, the only pro-abortion candidate in the race in 2008.

    What a record!

  155. Texas Conservative Says:

    Matt MWS,

    It is very simple, Perry endorsed Rudy because he thought he would be “the choice” for VP.

    But Rudy lost.

    Then Perry jumped on the McCain bandwagon for the very same reason. To be “the choice” for VP.

    But McCain picked Palin.

    Perry should have gone with his heart and picked the guy who he said he wanted to support:

    “In an apparent verbal gaffe, Texas Gov. Rick Perry tells reporters that who he wants to support is Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee. Perry corrects himself when reporters point out the slip.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Te31D9BX0

  156. casusit Says:

    I was okay with Michelle Bachmann, she acted with dignity, but Rick Perry is a dunce and there is no legitimate reason to support him except for his religion. The republican party is on the verge of going the way of the wigs because of the lack of moral code by so many hard core Evangelicals

    Typical Rombat formula: I was OK with [former frontrunner or candidate of note], but this [current frontrunner] is a(n) [expletive].

    Now even Huckabee is approved of by the Rombats because he is not running. Rombat: At least Huckabee [insert endearing comment] but this Perry guy [insert unspeakable horror and a sense of wonderment that anyone could support him when everyone of any consequence apparently does].

    In Romneyland, you are unspeakably evil only to the degree that you oppose or are in a position to compete with Romney. And they have a fill-in-the-blank template to tell you about it.

  157. Sojourner Truth Says:

    Perry backed Al Gore, who was pro-choice, against the pro-life republican candidate.

    Not quite. Gore was still pro-life in 1988.

  158. Sojourner Truth Says:

    In Romneyland, you are unspeakably evil only to the degree that you oppose or are in a position to compete with Romney. And they have a fill-in-the-blank template to tell you about it.

    Yeah I noticed that too.

    Didn’t some of the Rombots vow to do everything in their power to see to it that Huckabee lost Utah to a Obama in 2008 because he was so horrible?

    My how times change.

  159. casusit Says:

    “In an apparent verbal gaffe, Texas Gov. Rick Perry tells reporters that who he wants to support is Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee. Perry corrects himself when reporters point out the slip.”

    I don’t blame Perry at all for the slip. Huckabee is an endearing human being. Very genuine. Unlike some android called Willard.

  160. Massachusetts Conservative Says:

    Flavor of the Month breakdown:

    Trump < Perry < Bachmann < Cain < Huckabee < Daniels < Ryan < Christie

  161. Jonathan Says:

    Being a little new to this thread, I’m confused; why is endorsing Rudy suddenly so awful or going to be used against Perry? There are other issues to discuss and debate regarding Governor Perry, but who he endorsed in 08 should be rather low on the list.

  162. thetruth Says:

    when casuist babbles the same old romneycare, blah blah blah, I’ll just sing my new favorite song:

    Ricky Cottontail

    Flipped on the teenage girl mandate
    flopped on the Hillary health care
    flipped on the Illegal alien freeway
    flopped on the dream act
    Flipped on GIULIANI

    flippity floppity Ricky cottontail..

  163. Sojourner Truth Says:

    161 – Right on. I wonder if Mitt endorsed (in the voting booth) John Anderson in 1980, since he was an Independent during Reagan/Bush.

  164. hamaca Says:

    P/B,

    But wait, there’s more! You quoted the exact same offending piece again in another comment! The Gallup post, comment #35. Why would you quote the same thing twice in two posts that are in fact one after the other? You must have really wanted people to be sure and see what was written.

  165. thetruth Says:

    Jonathan #161

    There really isn’t any discussion of anything. all there is on this site is casuist and perry/bachmann rambling hate filled, idiotic and dishonest rhetoric.

    they are so possessed with Romney, I think they need professional help.

  166. casusit Says:

    Being a little new to this thread, I’m confused; why is endorsing Rudy suddenly so awful or going to be used against Perry? There are other issues to discuss and debate regarding Governor Perry, but who he endorsed in 08 should be rather low on the list.

    Yes, you would think that Rudy in ’08 would be a non-issue, but for reasons that are compelling only in Romneyland, the Rombats decided that this was somehow a contradiction so profound that it could become a powerful wedge issue to divide the entire GOP groundswell for Perry, away from Perry, or something. The rest of us are sort of scratching our heads about it. It’s cute, really. And sort of sad. It’s like that exhausted internet meme: Can Romney haz a chance?

  167. Not Your Promiscuous Daddy Says:

    P(romiscuous)/B(utter) in 146 says “Maybe Hamaca can help you. He’s also an overly obsessed religious nut from back in Rightosphere’s days of old.”

    Absolute bull crap. hamaca is one of the most fair, level headed, and honest commenters to ever participate at Race42008, ROS, or Race42012. And he was here long before you ever darkened the door step of ROS.

  168. hamaca Says:

    161. Jonathan,

    Perry supporters attempted to assure Matt “MWS” that he, Perry, has been 100% pro-life for decades. As you know, the issue of life is one of Matt’s deal-breakers and so questions have been raised regarding Perry’s support of pro-choice Rudy and of Gore (I haven’t personally seen anything concrete on whether Gore was pro-life or pro-choice at the time Perry supported him.)

    So, it’s not so much the endorsement, but rather whether the track-record is as pure as claimed.

  169. thetruth Says:

    Hey casuist

    this was not a Romney issue, this was a religious right, pro life, issue. tell the truth just once….please

    are you able to tell the truth?????? just once??????

  170. casusit Says:

    they are so possessed with Romney, I think they need professional help.

    Help, yes, and we all need help to escape ObamaCare, which was modeled after RomneyCare, a progressive solution from a progressive candidate who cross-dresses as a conservative when he pole-dances in conservative nightclubs to a high-kicking chorus-line of bloggers from the formerly conservative National Review. I would prefer it were our progressives all Democrats. It taints the Republican brand when Willard “RomneyCare” Romney tries to sound conservative.

  171. hamaca Says:

    166. “…the Rombats decided that this was somehow a contradiction so profound…”

    I think you know Matt “MWS” is not a Romney supporter.

  172. Jonathan Says:

    Thanks all, much appreciated. As one of the 5 people who voted for Rudy in 2008, I have a special place in my heart for Hizzoner.

  173. casusit Says:

    So, it’s not so much the endorsement, but rather whether the track-record is as pure as claimed.

    Hey, look everyone, a Romney supporter demanding a purity test!

  174. hamaca Says:

    167. NYPD–thanks for the very kind words.

  175. Matt "MWS" Says:

    casuit,

    “Because Rudy can select his own cabinet”

    So why would Perry go out of his way to endorse a guy whose cabinet would not reflect Rick’s values?

  176. hamaca Says:

    173. Nope–just my interpretation of what your clan has been trying to convince Matt “MWS” of. Perry–white as snow.

  177. Ohio JOE Says:

    “I don’t even know what religion Jeb and Rubio are? Do you? And why do you care sooooooooooo much?” They are Catholic, but perhaps Thunder and company thinks they are uncle Toms.

  178. Matt "MWS" Says:

    casusit,

    Why would Rick supposedly insistent on a pro-life cabinet, but not a pro-life President?

    Seems to me the only way to keep Ricky P consistent is to empty his “values” talk of meaning, and concede he was merely trying to manipulate SoCons like a cheap piece of West Texas real estate.

  179. hamaca Says:

    177. And here I thought it was because he was a grouchy contrarian”.

  180. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Perry uses SoCons like he uses slush funds.

  181. hamaca Says:

    Wow–a few comments just got switched around. 179 was meant for what is now 180.

  182. hamaca Says:

    Moved again? Ok, 179 is for this, wherever it ends up:

    “Do I? Why is he resisting the subtle charms of the seductive android who gave us RomneyCare? Is it spite? Is he an Evangelical bigot? Is he all twisted up with envy at the brilliant white light of healing power that is Romney? I don’t get it. How could he not support Romney?

    Oh, right. RomneyCare. That’s a problem.”

  183. casusit Says:

    I think you know Matt “MWS” is not a Romney supporter.

    Do I? Why is he resisting the subtle charms of the seductive android who gave us RomneyCare? Is it spite? Is he an Evangelical bigot? Is he all twisted up with envy at the brilliant white light of healing power that is Romney? I don’t get it. How could he not support Romney?

    Oh, right. RomneyCare. That’s a problem.

  184. Ohio JOE Says:

    I’ll be blunt hamaca, I have known you long enough to know that you are not a Religious bigot, but I am puzzled that a few of your friends cannot tell the difference between Catholics and Protestant. BTW, the article that you posted the other day that claimed that some Perryites were both anti-Mormon and anti-Catholic. However, one of the supposed anti-Catholics listed was himself a Catholic. So yes, I do take such things with a grain of salt.

  185. GetReal Says:

    183 – Romney unveiled a much different healthcare plan a few months ago. Perhaps you should judge him by that, unless you think a candidate should be forever unwavering on important issues…in which case how can you possibly support Rick Perry?

  186. Matt "MWS" Says:

    OJ,

    John Hagee is anti-Catholic. I can only presume that he’s anti-Mormon as well.

  187. thetruth Says:

    casusit – “blah, blah, blah”

    casusit’s thought process:

    perry mandates AOK
    perry amnesty AOK
    perry making millions off in “public” service AOK
    perry flip flopping on every big issue AOK

    Romney walked out to his car = the end of the world

  188. Not Your Promiscuous Daddy Says:

    John Hagee is indeed flaming anti-Mormon.

  189. thetruth Says:

    cususit said: “Why is he resisting the subtle charms of the seductive android who gave us RomneyCare?”

    Do you live in Mass? No? then he didn’t give you anything. What a hack

  190. Not Your Promiscuous Daddy Says:

    It is also worth noting that casusit (aka Dotan) masqueraded for a while (ROS days?) under the pseudonym Ervil Lebaron and posted some of the most egregious Mormon hating bilge and lies. Here is more info on Ervil Lebaron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

  191. Sojourner Truth Says:

    189 – arguably RomneyCare gave us ObamaCare.

    At least, according to the architect of ObamaCare.

  192. Metro Says:

    Speaking as a SoLib, MWS is helping me be OK with Perry. I saw Perry’s 10th amendment “gaffes” on abortion and gay marriage as dog whistles.

    But Perry still has the same electability problems as any religious seeming, redneck talking, Southerner would.

  193. Sojourner Truth Says:

    I like Sojourner Truth better.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sojourner_Truth

  194. casusit Says:

    So why would Perry go out of his way to endorse a guy whose cabinet would not reflect Rick’s values?

    You can only select your own cabinet. You can’t select someone else’s. Why is this so huge an issue for you?

    I’m pro-life and I supported Hizzoner too (one of the 5 as Jonathan put it).

  195. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Rick Perry Headlining Fundraiser For Virginia Republican Party

    WASHINGTON — Texas Governor Rick Perry, a Republican presidential candidate, will be the marquee speaker at a fundraiser for the Virginia Republican Party on Sept. 14, appearing with Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell (R).

    The lunch event will be held at the Richmond Convention Center and cost attendees between $55 and $10,000 to attend. The top “Platinum” contribution level will earn attendees a reserved table for 10 people, six tickets to a meet-and-greet with McDonnell, a photo opportunity and two tickets for the governor’s head table.

    McDonnell is the new head of the Republican Governors Association. He took over from Perry, who stepped down because of his presidential campaign.

    “We’re absolutely thrilled that Governor Perry will be with us for this event,” said Virginia GOP Chairman Pat Mullins. “Governor Perry’s record in Texas of lower taxes, limited government, and job growth looks familiar to anyone who pays attention to Virginia politics. Like our own Governor Bob McDonnell, Gov. Perry has balanced his state’s budget by making prudent decisions, rather than treating taxpayers like an ATM.”

    As Mullins points out in his statement, Virginia will be a key battleground state in the 2012 election. The fundraiser gives Perry a prime chance to meet with activists and donors in the state, and vice versa.

    “This event is a great opportunity for the grassroots — the people who make the Republican Party of Virginia work — to get to know one of frontrunners for our party’s presidential nomination,” said Mullins.

    McDonnell, who served as Perry’s vice-chair at the RGA, said he had discussed the presidential race with the Texas governor before he jumped in. McDonnell has not yet endorsed a candidate and has no plans to do so until “at least after November.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/31/rick-perry-virginia_n_943675.html

  196. casusit Says:

    Do you live in Mass? No? then he didn’t give you anything. What a hack

    Ever heard of ObamaCare?

  197. hamaca Says:

    184. Thanks OJ. I think I saw what you’re referring to re lumping in multiple prospective candidates into one category–I couldn’t figure out where he was going with that. As far as the article, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of any of the characters mentioned there. If they got one wrong, it hurts the credibility of the reporting. Doesn’t automatically mean the rest is completely false, just that extra care is required if basing an opinion on it.

  198. thetruth Says:

    191 – and Perry loved HillaryCare

    Strange, very strange

  199. GetReal Says:

    191 – You’re right, Obama did say Romneycare gave him ideas. I guess you would have preferred Obama’s originally-promised single-payer nationalized healthcare ala Hillarycare, like Perry supported.

  200. thetruth Says:

    just seen this on FOX

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03FKUDBiBSY

    people in Texas love Rick

  201. hamaca Says:

    191.

    189 – arguably RomneyCare gave us ObamaCare.

    At least, according to the architect of ObamaCare.

    Yes, it’s true that Obama said something to that effect. So, do you believe everything Obama says?

  202. thetruth Says:

    Sorry casusit –

    Ricky loves HillaryCare is AOK

    I forgot, Ricky Flippy can’t do any wrong in casusit’s eye.

  203. casusit Says:

    Yes, it’s true that Obama said something to that effect. So, do you believe everything Obama says?

    The mandates, the exchanges, the subsidies, only RomneyCare is far more progressive than ObamaCare in that it offers a public option, something Obama himself was never able to deliver.

    So who is more progressive, Romney, or Obama? By Obama’s standards, it’s Romney.

  204. GetReal Says:

    203 – MassCare has no “public option” but nice try.

  205. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Typical Rombat formula: I was OK with [former frontrunner or candidate of note], but this [current frontrunner] is a(n) [expletive].

    Now even Huckabee is approved of by the Rombats because he is not running. Rombat: At least Huckabee [insert endearing comment] but this Perry guy [insert unspeakable horror and a sense of wonderment that anyone could support him when everyone of any consequence apparently does].

    In Romneyland, you are unspeakably evil only to the degree that you oppose or are in a position to compete with Romney. And they have a fill-in-the-blank template to tell you about it.

    ===

    Welcome to land of Willardville, home of the biggest group of phoneys on the internet.

    It is sooooo sweeeet watching them scramble, flail out, and lose it as Perry demolishes their guru.

    Good times :)

  206. Matt "MWS" Says:

    casusit,

    “You can only select your own cabinet.”

    Riiight. And when Perry was picking his President- which some might argue is more important than a cabinet- he either didn’t see fit to stick with his values, or pro-life simply isn’t one of those values, as he was leading the SoCons to believe.

    Why do I care? Because I’m passionate about the right to life, and I can’t stand frauds. Too many phony baloney politicians have wrecked the pro-life cause over the years.

  207. GetReal Says:

    205 – I’m still no fan of Huckabee. I do prefer him to Perry, though.

  208. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    197.

    Busted! ;)

  209. Sojourner Truth Says:

    MWS,

    Was Bush too “phony baloney” because he had Rice in his cabinet?

    I’m just trying to understand how far you’re taking this.

  210. thetruth Says:

    205

    phonies???????
    you and casusit are the phonies, hypocrites, can’t defend Perry with his many faults so you just spout lies and exaggerations.

  211. hamaca Says:

    208. LOL! Hardly. Btw, it’s the same publication as the one you quoted–twice–that I referred to above! Business Insider.

  212. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Metro,

    As a SoLib, Perry might be your best bet. I always considered Romney mostly devoid of core political principles, but he’s looking like Ghandi compared to Ricky P.

  213. GetReal Says:

    You guys are going to have to try a lot harder than that to convince Matt. Many-a-time I exhausted myself trying to convince him my candidate wasn’t so bad on the life issue. My beard received the scratching of a lifetime, to no avail.

  214. teledude Says:

    Nasty nasty nasty.

    Governor Palin is going to be such a breath of fresh air after all this nastiness.

    When people compare her good hearted personality and stellar performance as governor…it’s game over for the squabbling crony capitalists.

    Just a heads up.

    I’m just here to help. :-)

  215. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Sojo,

    Bush sent mixed signals. Remember he tried to foist Harriet Myers on us, who might have been his David Souter. Most of what he did for life was symbolic or small bore. Alito and Roberts are presumed pro-life, but they haven’t tackled Roe directly.

    As for Rice, I suppose it depends mainly on if the post has a meaningful impact on life issues. Sec. of State certainly could, and I think ought to be staffed by a pro-lifer.

  216. GetReal Says:

    214 – I just hope You haven’t Betcha too much on that happening. ;)

  217. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Take GetReal’s advice. I’m sort of a grizzled veteran who’s hard to impress and easy to vex when it comes to politicians and life. Waaaay too many charlatans. It may well be like that on all issues, but in those, the stakes are rarely as high.

  218. casusit Says:

    Why do I care? Because I’m passionate about the right to life, and I can’t stand frauds. Too many phony baloney politicians have wrecked the pro-life cause over the years.

    What if I were a confidence huckster carnival-barker who was otherwise committed to the pro-life cause? Would you hate me and love me at the same time? What if I were a pro-choicer in perfect integrity and consistency, would you hate me, and yet respect me? What if I were an ardent pro-lifer but I believed that life began in ex-utero development? You’re like a case-study in applied ethics.

  219. casusit Says:

    203 – MassCare has no “public option” but nice try.

    Yes it does. LGBYF. It’s called network health, and while it is means tested, it is still a public option. Thank for the opportunity to set you straight again.

  220. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Get Real,

    You can have Matt back, perhaps he’ll bring along the other two hundred Huntbots in America. He’s a closet Rombot anyway. See 212 – where he compares Romney to Ghandi. Yep, he’s a bright one and should fit in with the oh so brilliant and reasonable Rombot crowd of CF, MC, and Martha.

  221. GetReal Says:

    Network Health is part of Medicaid. Its been around over a decade. What’s it got to do specifically with Romney or his health care plan?

  222. casusit Says:

    Network Health is part of Medicaid.

    Really? Show me: http://www.network-health.org/visitors/

  223. GetReal Says:

    220 – Your sarcasm aside, Matt as he is (a Huntsman supporter) is worth several dozen of you, when it comes to thoughtfully adding to the debate, and I feel the same way when he’s against me on a topic.

    I must admit that you have him beat hands down when it comes to prolific spamming.

  224. GetReal Says:

    222 – its that had hard to find nugget called “About Network Health.” They (among others) provide MA medicaid coverage.

  225. thetruth Says:

    Ricky Cottontail

    Flipped on the teenage girl mandate
    flopped on the Hillary health care
    flipped on the Illegal alien freeway
    flopped on the dream act
    Flipped on GIULIANI

    flippity floppity Ricky cottontail..

  226. thetruth Says:

    I think I’ll come back to this site in November when Perry is home in Texas and casusit and perry/bachmann are on the 13th floor ledge contemplating………….

  227. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Test.

  228. Matt "MWS" Says:

    casusit,

    “What if I were a confidence huckster carnival-barker who was otherwise committed to the pro-life cause?”

    Lacking in omniscience, yet required to make a judgement, I would have to conclude that your lack of principles carry over into life issues.

    Would you hate me and love me at the same time?

    I don’t “hate” anyone in the absolute sense. But there are people I really, really, really dislike. For me, the difference between dislike and hate is the difference between hoping someone ends up on the other side of heaven, and hoping they burn in hell.

    “What if I were a pro-choicer in perfect integrity and consistency, would you hate me, and yet respect me?”

    I can appreciate integrity in people I disagree with. I doubt there was anyone who ever lived who was completely lacking in some shred of virtue.

    “What if I were an ardent pro-lifer but I believed that life began in ex-utero development?”

    I would probably smile, and say “don’t trust that Ricky P.”

    “You’re like a case-study in applied ethics.”

    Perhaps. Your current handle constantly makes me think of the word “casuistry”.

  229. casusit Says:

    They (among others) provide MA medicaid coverage

    That doesn’t make network health medicaid. That just means they accept medicaid funding or supervise medicaid coverage. It’s still the MassCare public option.

  230. Sojourner Truth Says:

    Mitt Romney’s Problem Is That He’s Bad at Politics
    By Scott Galupo

    Posted: August 31, 2011

    Former Gov. Mitt Romney’s deficiencies as a presidential candidate are obvious and, at this stage, probably insurmountable.

    On the surface, his problem is that he’s bad at politics.

    The Weekly Standard’s Jonathan Last points out that Romney’s actual electoral track record is far from MVP material—a meager five for 18 if you count statewide races and presidential primaries:

    “Strip away the $500 million treasure room and the willingness to blow large chunks of his kids’ inheritance, and he’s Ron Paul without the ideological moorings and grassroots support,” declares Last. [Read Washington Whispers: Romney's Sweet $12 Million Home, Lap Pool]

    As things stand now, Romney stands to lose a bunch more primaries, thanks to a surging Gov. Rick Perry.

    If Marc Thiessen’s sources are correct, Romney plans on running to Rick Perry’s left on entitlements and to Perry’s right on immigration:

    Romney’s campaign will argue that Perry is against the very idea of Social Security and Medicare, and that he will use Perry’s book to scare seniors in early-primary states with large retiree populations, such as Florida and South Carolina.

    The Romney campaign also plans to use immigration to drive a wedge between Perry and his conservative base, by highlighting Perry’s opposition to a border fence and legislation he signed in 2001 allowing the children of illegal immigrants to attend Texas colleges and universities at in-state tuition.

    You can practically hear the clanging and buzzing of Romney Robotic Manipulation technology:

    What are Rick Perry’s political weaknesses? [Read Robert Schlesinger:Rick Perry's Double Talk on Social Security and the Constitution]

    Ding!—Extreme rhetoric on constitutionality of Medicare and Social Security—Beep-Beep-Ding!—From border state; soft on immigration—Ding!—[Making necessary adjustments in left hemisphere of RomneyBrain].

    Calculating is the easy part of politics.

    The hard part is winning votes.

    The reason Romney doesn’t do the hard part well exposes a more profound problem.

    As in 2008, when he tried and failed to outflank Sen. John McCain’s right, Romney appears to think that he can run like a literary composite character. Yes, Rick Perry is eminently vulnerable to a Medi-scare campaign. And, at least among the conservative base, it would appear that Perry is disturbingly pragmatic when it comes to immigration. [See a collection of political cartoons on immigration.]

    But, at this point in the history of U.S politics, it would be a highly unusual creature who could launch both attacks simultaneously.

    In a recent post, I argued that Rick Perry has a history of flip-flops to match Romney’s.

    This is true. But I should have added that flip-flopping isn’t necessarily a fatal flaw. It’s when voters trust neither your flip nor your flop—that’s when you’re toast.

    Mitt Romney doesn’t change his mind; that would imply a) he sincerely believed something in the first place and b) there exists a gray-colored organ inside Mitt Romney’s cranium.

    It’s more accurate to say he toggles the settings on the RomneyBrain.

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/scott-galupo/2011/08/31/mitt-romneys-problem-is-that-hes-bad-at-politics

  231. GetReal Says:

    229 – it existed prior to Masscare.

  232. casusit Says:

    I can appreciate integrity in people I disagree with. I doubt there was anyone who ever lived who was completely lacking in some shred of virtue.

    That’s reasonable. About my handle, yes, casuist comes from the Latin si sit casu, or take the case of, or case-based moral reasoning, which is the definition of casuistry in the neutral sense of Jesuit casuistry as a method of argumentation. Very perceptive.

  233. casusit Says:

    229 – it existed prior to Masscare.

    Yes, and so did health insurance, and all health insurance delivery in MA is organized by the state in the form of exchanges, with network health serving as the public option, which makes RomneyCare more progressive than ObamaCare, which is something to be proud of, right?–because expanding entitlements is our beloved political classes demonstrate their love for us, or something.

  234. mac Says:

    220.
    Craig,
    Having been here at Race for 4 years and counting, it’s surreal to see anyone accuse MWS of being a closet Rombot after having watched him round house kick, Jackie Chan style, legions of rombots in thread after thread dating back back to ’07.

  235. casusit Says:

    You can practically hear the clanging and buzzing of Romney Robotic Manipulation technology:
    What are Rick Perry’s political weaknesses? [Read Robert Schlesinger:Rick Perry's Double Talk on Social Security and the Constitution]
    Ding!—Extreme rhetoric on constitutionality of Medicare and Social Security—Beep-Beep-Ding!—From border state; soft on immigration—Ding!—[Making necessary adjustments in left hemisphere of RomneyBrain].
    Calculating is the easy part of politics.
    The hard part is winning votes.

    So true. Thanks, Sojourner.

  236. teledude Says:

    216. GetReal

    I know people who have invested their entire life savings into seeing it happen.

    Personally I have only “invested” a modest amount, by comparison.

    You may want to bone up on her record.

    You’re in for a surprise.

    heh heh

  237. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    “Strip away the $500 million treasure room and the willingness to blow large chunks of his kids’ inheritance, and he’s Ron Paul without the ideological moorings and grassroots support”

    Ok, this shall be tweeted and posted asap throughout America. I’ll do it.

  238. GetReal Says:

    237 – “I’ll do it.”

    No surprise there. ;)

  239. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    Mac,

    We’ll see if I’m right come SC primary time when I will flush him out once and for all. :)

  240. Perry/Bachmann for 2012! Says:

    I say Matt goes full rombot when Huntsman drops out and before SC primary night occurs. Yes, I said full rombot, i.e. looney tunes time – to stop a certain Texan’s inevitable nomination and subsequent presidency.

    Either that or he’s pulling everyone’s leg when he implies that Perry is not 100% pro life based on decades of his unblemished record in Texas.

    I betting though he goes full rombot and takes a chance on the guy who endorsed multiple pro abortion candidates over the years, pro abortion judges galore, and tried but failed to trick America by flip flopping on abortion just in time to run in Iowa ’08. Btw, anyone know the definition of insanity? Tell Matt.

    All this over the guy who was once friends with Rudy – who may have given Perrry his heartfelt word as a Catholic, a father, and a man — that he would only appoint pro lifers..if ever given the chance as POTUS.

  241. Matt "MWS" Says:

    Craig, the reason that I have to love thee
    Doth much excuse the appertaining rage
    To such a greeting: villain am I none;
    Therefore farewell; I see thou know’st me not.

  242. ogrepete Says:

    I’m really starting to enjoy Mitt’s “Obama’s Not Working” series of web ads. Here’s the latest one, much liked by Fox News’ Frank Luntz.

    http://gop12.thehill.com/2011/08/romneys-very-effective-ad.html

  243. ogrepete Says:

    Perhaps “enjoy” isn’t the right word. I think the ads are starting to become very effective.

    That’s better. :)

  244. Riccardo Says:

    anyone who wanted AL GORE to be president can’t call himself a life time pro lifer…sorry. Fail!

  245. TEX Says:

    Rick Flaming AlGore Liberal Perry endorsed pro abortion Giuliani for President in 2008,

    but now he “pledged to influential Christian leaders that he will push pro-life policies, oppose gay marriage, and pick cabinet officials and a vice president who share his values, a promise that would rule out a Perry-Rudy Giuliani ticket”.

    This con man,lying,conniving,shady in the gutter low life character will
    flip flop 10 times a day,will say anything to advance himself.

    Mitt Romney flip flopped many times,but he’s fundamentally nice,decent
    man.

    Slick The Conman Rick is a very duplicitous,dangerous Elmer Gantry.

    I hope Mitt Romney will have the spine to go after Ricky the Slickster,
    The Bernie Madoff of politics before Sarah Palin jumps in.

    But I’m afraid only Sarahcuda has the willpower,ferocious tenacity,spine
    of steel and rare God’s gift to explain complex subjects in very simple,
    memorable terms so everybody can instantly understand,I know if the conman doesn’t implode before,Sarah Palin will gut him like a fish.

  246. Matt "MWS" Says:

    TEX,

    While I (mostly) agree with you about Ricky P, apparently Sara doesn’t. Or at least didn’t.

  247. TEX Says:

    @JenniferJJacobs JenniferJacobsDMReg
    Small crowd at Tea Party Express event with Michele Bachmann in Des Moines. Maybe 80 people, including vendors at several tents. #iacaucus

    I said several times since she became candidate that Mini me,me,me will be gone by November.

    Revision:

    It will happen before!!!

  248. TEX Says:

    246 Matt,

    Sorry to say but agree with you.

    I know,because she said so,Sarah Palin learned a lot from endorsing people in 2010.

    She put several totally unknown people on the map and supported some
    that,looking back,she shouldn’t.

    Once on Fox she said something like this:

    “…..I put some of them on the map,and I pushed some of them over the
    finish line.To this day I never heard from some of them.
    I’M NOT WIRED LIKE THAT.”

    She’s talking about common decency that some people don’t have,people
    she put her neck out for.

    Sarah Palin brought 10,000 people for Ricky AlGore Perry rally on Super
    Ball Sunday.

    BIG,BIG,BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

  249. Franklin Says:

    While I (mostly) agree with you about Ricky P, apparently Sara doesn’t. Or at least didn’t.
    ==================================================
    You cannot take a endorsement for governor and equate it with running for President. I probably would support Guliani for Governor or Senator in New York but that does not mean I would support him for President. Completely bogus.

  250. Franklin Says:

    I’m really starting to enjoy Mitt’s “Obama’s Not Working” series of web ads. Here’s the latest one, much liked by Fox News’ Frank Luntz.
    ============================================
    The trouble is that he is not laying a case for him to be President over anyone else.

  251. ogrepete Says:

    Accusing MWS of being a closet Rombot… Bad idea for anyone who wants to keep their good reputation.

    Of course, it was Craig who said it, so no worries about the “good” reputation. ;)

  252. hamaca Says:

    250. There are many strategies, each having varying degrees of impact.

    This one could be to first soften up support for Obama through repeated ads such as this (rather than just jump out there saying “here I am”).

    Once those who are on the fence re Obama are softened up and willing to consider alternatives, whatever is next in the strategy will hopefully come at an appropriate. I don’t know what it is. But I don’t think that you always have to present the problem and solution at the same time during a lengthy campaign.

  253. Franklin Says:

    Can you say, pull the plug Michele?
    ===============================================
    Not only that but we now have 6 straight national polls showing Palin ahead of Bachmann. Not so good when only 23% or less think Palin is running.

  254. Ohio JOE Says:

    “John Hagee is anti-Catholic. I can only presume that he’s anti-Mormon as well.” Yes he was, but A, you that was not your determining factor in deciding who you supported and B, he has since come to an understanding with the same Catholic groups that opposed him.

  255. Anybody but Perry Says:

    August 22, 2001, Rick Perry, in a speech addressing the Border Summit said this;

    “President Fox’s (Former President of Mexico, Vicente Fox) vision for an open border is a vision I embrace.”

    You can read the full speech here:
    http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10688/

    Lets all get to know the real Rick Perry.

  256. thunder (Any body except Perry) Says:

    Bachmann group starts to after Perry

    http://www.rightspeak.net/2011/08/bachmann-super-pac-take-aim-at-perry-in.html

  257. Matt "MWS" Says:

    hamaca,

    “Once those who are on the fence re Obama are softened up and willing to consider alternatives, whatever is next in the strategy will hopefully come at an appropriate”

    It didn’t occur to me before I read that theory, but perhaps Mitt is trying to draw more “swingy” Indies into the Republican primaries? If so, that could be a smart strategy, though it’s hard to change the voting patterns of large groups of people. This could also help Huntsman.

    But if that is the purpose behind this- and it certainly makes more sense than running a general election campaign in the summer of ’11- that is some interesting strategury.

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